Yes, i presume so also.
I'll post a video up early next week. I go away tomorrow for a few days.
If peter wants to delete it because its on another software then I have no objections. However, I think it would be good to see what others think in terms of commission generating, front running, software refresh etc... There have been a lot of vids out there but you probably never looked to be honest frank?
At the front of the queue but not getting matched
I'll be honest on that particular video, I'm not convinced it's any nefarious activity. This is because software has diverted from just being a fast way of displaying prices to trying to be clever about it and it doesn't work TBH in a serious trading environment. When I place an order I want to know what happened to it.
We first spotted the problem when we saw a video and noticed that the volume matched didn't rise when a bet was 'matched'. You also have the complication of cross matching. So a combination of all the above just leaves you with a false view of the market.
Come November when API NG is formally launched everybody will / should have the virtual bets in the software using the Betfair calculation and that will probably provide a clearer picture. As it is, I wouldn't trust anything unless you are looking specifically at raw data.
There was an instant on this forum recently where somebody got saw some really odd activity and it just turned out to be the virtual bets in the end. It looked dodgy as anything but the underlying reality was some what duller.
All that said the fill rate is dropping, so that must be down to something.
We first spotted the problem when we saw a video and noticed that the volume matched didn't rise when a bet was 'matched'. You also have the complication of cross matching. So a combination of all the above just leaves you with a false view of the market.
Come November when API NG is formally launched everybody will / should have the virtual bets in the software using the Betfair calculation and that will probably provide a clearer picture. As it is, I wouldn't trust anything unless you are looking specifically at raw data.
There was an instant on this forum recently where somebody got saw some really odd activity and it just turned out to be the virtual bets in the end. It looked dodgy as anything but the underlying reality was some what duller.
All that said the fill rate is dropping, so that must be down to something.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I think the odd activity with virtual bets was probably the instances I posted up with virtual bets turning off and on. Strangely enough, after I posted up that video the action changed and became much quicker. Its as though a clearing of a cache data is happening around the money. Its quite hard to see but it is still happening, sometimes just turning off one side of the book and sometimes both. This happens on both BA and other software so it wasn't an isolated issue with BA which the vids were done on.
Going back to the queue jumping I'll try and give an example of what I see.
Take an Ausy market with say 2k matched bets 8 mins from the off. The favorite has has a spread of 3 from the layers and 6 from the backers. I enter 5 pounds lay in front of 3s at 3.05, then an amount for 0(zero or sometimes 1) appears in front of me at 3.1. Then a back amount for say 47 lands on the book at 3.10 and immediately is laid out for exactly the same amount. 94 quid of matched bets but it never touches my 5 quid. If it was x matching, I presume that the money has to be there to begin with so I don't believe its xmatching.
What I'm seeing is that it doesn't matter the amount in the queue, but if they have the front of the book they can match artificial amounts against that position.
If it is a software issue then it could explain why some people feel like queue jumping is going on if they are seeing it on other ladders when actually nothing is happening.
Going back to the queue jumping I'll try and give an example of what I see.
Take an Ausy market with say 2k matched bets 8 mins from the off. The favorite has has a spread of 3 from the layers and 6 from the backers. I enter 5 pounds lay in front of 3s at 3.05, then an amount for 0(zero or sometimes 1) appears in front of me at 3.1. Then a back amount for say 47 lands on the book at 3.10 and immediately is laid out for exactly the same amount. 94 quid of matched bets but it never touches my 5 quid. If it was x matching, I presume that the money has to be there to begin with so I don't believe its xmatching.
What I'm seeing is that it doesn't matter the amount in the queue, but if they have the front of the book they can match artificial amounts against that position.
If it is a software issue then it could explain why some people feel like queue jumping is going on if they are seeing it on other ladders when actually nothing is happening.
Euler wrote:We first spotted the problem when we saw a video and noticed that the volume matched didn't rise when a bet was 'matched'.
I beg to differ. What you are describing can happen regularly as prices, bets and traded volumes are all different calls to the API, set at different frequencies and arriving at different times.
In my set up prices and bets are polled every 200ms and traded volumes every second, so 4 times out of 5 that would happen.
A couple of days this is also happening to me :\ The odds I'm at are getting matched and then suddenly everything goes in the wrong direction for 4 or more ticks - of course the price never comes back and I have to cut the loss.weemac wrote:I see this happening with surprising frequency pre-off. I've submitted a lay, let's say at 2.82, and I know I'm at or very near near the front of the queue. The price comes to my level, and hey, I'm gonna get matched, right? Wrong! Hundreds trade at my price but I don't get matched. What happens next?
2.84...2.86....2.88....2.90.
In the youtube videos this never happens to pros - where's the catch?
