Help With Losses Please.

[StevenUK]

Hello everyone.

Over the last 12 months I have been 'toying' with BetAngel and thought I had an edge, and still think I do to some degree.

The problem is, I can scalp in play and get something like a 95%+ success rate with the criteria I use.

This sometimes wins like 20 trades out of 20 some days, 14 wins out of 15 the next day, etc. etc. the win rate is high. For example, over the last few days, I have won 14 trades out if 16, making an overall profit of 14% on my bank, and usually the % of profit is much higher per day, like a 21% increase on the daily bank.

But, what kills the criteria, is the one loss, and this loss is created by the market totally skipping past my stop loss so fast that I end up losing a full stake, which wipes a full days profit.

For example, let's say I am placing a backbet trade at 3.0 and set a stop loss at 2.0, sometimes the market moves so fast (maybe a horse falls, or a spike hits the market) that the price simply jumps past my position, without taking the stake at the stop loss position, and loses the full stake.

Is there any way to stop this using BetAngel? Even if the stop loss amount could be spread out at say, odds 2.0, some at 1.8, some at 1.6, some at 1.4 to give a higher change of the stop loss stake being taken by the market (instead of the market whizzing past it) thereby spreading the stop loss over a few different prices, would this work, and can BetAngel be programmed to do this?

Thanks in advance.

[lancelot66]

Hi.
I am no expert trader but, if I have read your post correctly you have backed at 3.0 and then set a stop loss at 2.0 A stop loss should be set at a price above 3.0 in your case, as any price below 3.0 is on the plus side for you.I think stop loss positions can only be placed on the minus side of a position and therefore what you should do is place a lay bet at 2.0 either manually or using ofset betting etc. in automation.

[StevenUK]

Hi.
I am no expert trader but, if I have read your post correctly you have backed at 3.0 and then set a stop loss at 2.0 A stop loss should be set at a price above 3.0 in your case, as any price below 3.0 is on the plus side for you.I think stop loss positions can only be placed on the minus side of a position and therefore what you should do is place a lay bet at 2.0 either manually or using ofset betting etc. in automation.

Ah, sorry my mistake, yes, if I traded at 3.0 and set the stop loss at 4.0. I got mixed up.

Same question though, is there any way to stop the market flying past my position, by maybe spreading more than 1 stop loss?

If I can stop this happening, then I am pretty much sure that my edge can profit daily.

Any help would be appreciated. I thought there would be more activity on this forum, help appreciated nonetheless.

Is it possible to get an answer from BetAngel themselves?

[Alpha322]

Hi.
I am no expert trader but, if I have read your post correctly you have backed at 3.0 and then set a stop loss at 2.0 A stop loss should be set at a price above 3.0 in your case, as any price below 3.0 is on the plus side for you.I think stop loss positions can only be placed on the minus side of a position and therefore what you should do is place a lay bet at 2.0 either manually or using ofset betting etc. in automation.

Ah, sorry my mistake, yes, if I traded at 3.0 and set the stop loss at 4.0. I got mixed up.

Same question though, is there any way to stop the market flying past my position, by maybe spreading more than 1 stop loss?

If I can stop this happening, then I am pretty much sure that my edge can profit daily.

Any help would be appreciated. I thought there would be more activity on this forum, help appreciated nonetheless.

Is it possible to get an answer from BetAngel themselves?

Forget Stop Loss in Play it doesnt work because of the hin volume in the market, thats why it skips where you put it because there is no money at that price at the time to match you, i stopped using stop losses years ago as a pre race trader you dont really need too

[StevenUK]

Sometimes it does catch though, so the stop loss is not totally useless, but definitely cannot be relied upon in play. I wonder though if the software can be programmed to sit wherever the money is, say, 5 positions behind a trade, and if activated and there is no money there the software moves the trade to a position where there is money, anywhere from 5 positions from the trade to anywhere on the grid that can catch at least some of the stop loss to stop a total wipe out.

[marko236]

Inplay is a gamble so only use upto 1% of your bank, stop loses in my opinion don't work.

[StevenUK]

Nobody is going to make worthwhile profits using 1% of a betting bank.

I take it that it is not possible to program the software to move a stop loss to where there is liquidity? Or should I post on the automation forum?

[marko236]

Nobody is going to make worthwhile profits using 1% of a betting bank.

I take it that it is not possible to program the software to move a stop loss to where there is liquidity? Or should I post on the automation forum?

1% per trade, if first one wins you do another and then keep going, if you do 20 trades thats 20% of bank used risking only 1%, on stop losses the bet can take 1 sec to fire into the market so there is no way of getting a stop loss 100% of the time.

[LeTiss]

1% per trade, if first one wins you do another and then keep going, if you do 20 trades thats 20% of bank used risking only 1%

That's a fair point - I can guarantee you Peter Webb would not have had his amazing trading success by having just 1 successful trade per market, then taking a green & moving on. He will regurgitate his bank a number of times

[marko236]

1% per trade, if first one wins you do another and then keep going, if you do 20 trades thats 20% of bank used risking only 1%

That's a fair point - I can guarantee you Peter Webb would not have had his amazing trading success by having just 1 successful trade per market, then taking a green & moving on. He will regurgitate his bank a number of times

I go through my bank at least once every 24 hours, trying to get even more than that into the market but the fill rate in football is so slow!

[lord]

But, what kills the criteria, is the one loss, and this loss is created by the market totally skipping past my stop loss

If you are talking pre race this "skip" NEVER use to happen in the early days, the market was smooth and went in understandable increments.

I noticed around a couple of years ago these sudden "skips" from say 3.0 to 2.6 or 5.0 to 4.6, totally messing up the daily profits, i am not sure who is instigating this and i don't believe in conspiracy theories but the market imo is being "managed" by a market maker/betfair/someone (not a regular user)

We all just have to be aware that sometimes things occur that hamper our trading, it is not a level playing field.