Betdaq volume monitoring thread

[Euler]

Y some markets a poor still, but it seems skewed to the +ve. So there are more markets that are really good, than those that are duff. But obviously it would be better if they were all strong.

I'm not sure how to take the product forward. We can't really do much more on it. We can't pay people to promote it, but it would obviously benefit everybody it it was out there a bit more and picked up a lot more usage.

Not everyday you get something as detailed and complex as Bet Angel completely for free! I really wish it would gain some more traction.

[andyfuller]

I really wish it would gain some more traction.

You're not alone. I am sure more people will give it a go slowly over time but I can't see any thing changing soon unfortunately as there have been numerous reasons for people to make the switch but they haven't.

This Saturday I had a good day on there and I am sure many of the new traders would actually find it easier but they are drawn to BF.

It's a real shame that such a good idea, exchanges, has not taken a much larger share of the betting market.

[Euler]

It's a real shame that such a good idea, exchanges, has not taken a much larger share of the betting market.

I can't really understand it at all, are people really that stupid? I just really can't think of many reasons why people would use a sports book.

[oscar123]

Thats a good point about new traders finding it easier on Betdaq.

I spent years trading exclusively on betfair without really getting anywhere, it wasnt until i started using Betdaq too that i started to make any progress. I think trading on Betdaq teaches you a lot more, and it certainly made me a better trader overall.

When starting out full time most traders will be looking to average at least £100 per day as a decent starting point and something to build on. Im not saying it is easy to achieve that, it still takes a lot of hard work and dedication, though i think you have far more chance of averaging that on both exchanges, rather than just trading on the one. I think its far easier to average £50 per day on both exchanges, rather than £100 on the one.

I think a lot of people make the mistake of making small profits on betfair and then thinking all they have to do is scale up,which can often turn a winning strategy into a losing one, instead they would probably be more profitable if they diversed and started using Betdaq too.

[Archangel]

It's a real shame that such a good idea, exchanges, has not taken a much larger share of the betting market.

I can't really understand it at all, are people really that stupid? I just really can't think of many reasons why people would use a sports book.

Do the masses really know and understand the exchange ?
Even Betfair bring people straight to their sportsbook now so the average bettor is not being shown or educated
i know to us it seems so obvious to use the exchange. Im just thinking of the general public and what they are being 'sold'

[THENUTS]

I can't really understand it at all, are people really that stupid? I just can't think of many reasons why people would use a sports book

I am very surprised that a man with your intelect can call people that use the sportsbook " stupid " . There are a vast range of reasons why people do that are far too long to list. One example would be that the majority out there do not care much for trading or acheving the best odds for their money , they dont know what an overound is nor do they care. All they want to do ( as you well know from documented trade levels in the past ) is have £10 - £50 on Arsenal to win their next home match or £20 on the 2.15 at x.

Furthermore , the people that do eventually get clued up about the advantages of the exchanges and migrate to them continue to do the same thing and place poor value bets with no edge and due to the exchanges operating the " zero sum " principal of for every winner there is a loser on the other side and who is on the other side of their trade - you.

Regardless of how much money you are making from sports trading , you have the aptitudes within this arena that other people do not which i suspect is why you remain in this domain and do not permanently transition into the finacial arena where the scalability is in the billions not the thousands of this arena. And after all the people on the other side of your trades do pay your wages.

I think it was Charlie Munger that said this :

“So you have to figure out what your own aptitudes are. If you play games where other people have the aptitudes and you don't, you're going to lose. And that's as close to certain as any prediction that you can make. You have to figure out where you've got an edge. And you've got to play within your own circle of competence.”

My point : " stupid " for people that use the sportsbook seems rather narrow minded and innapropriate "

[Euler]

'Stupid' in the broadest sense. My comments come from my frustration at Betfair encouraging people to use the sportsbook and not the exchange.

I can't get any money on a sportsbook even by taking poorer prices. Sportsbooks are stacked up against you so much I don't really think it's worth wasting time there.

I have pretty much all my net worth invested in financials so I'm fully exposed there. Gambling generates capital to do that. So I'm happy taking risk anywhere, my only preference is for a decent return on capital.

I started with bookies before moving to exchanges and don't envisage going back.

[Kai]

I also think that "stupid" is way too strong of a word to be used in this context, a more suitable word would probably be "ignorant".

Are people really that ignorant to use the sports book instead of the exchange? Yes, they absolutely are.

One of my closer friends is the perfect example. He likes to do a lot of live betting on Bet365, he is even consistently profitable over there. I must have had at least 10 attempts to try and persuade him to bet on Betfair where he can get MUCH better odds for everything. He doesn't even care about betting with better odds, let alone about trading.

[Archangel]

I also think that "stupid" is way too strong of a word to be used in this context, a more suitable word would probably be "ignorant".

Are people really that ignorant to use the sports book instead of the exchange? Yes, they absolutely are.

One of my closer friends is the perfect example. He likes to do a lot of live betting on Bet365, he is even consistently profitable over there. I must have had at least 10 attempts to try and persuade him to bet on Betfair where he can get MUCH better odds for everything. He doesn't even care about betting with better odds, let alone about trading.

If he is consistently profitable its amazing he still has an account
Sportsbooks usually ban consistent winners

[Kai]

If he is consistently profitable its amazing he still has an account
Sportsbooks usually ban consistent winners

My thoughts exactly, I told him many times that they're going to limit his account eventually. But he is not a serious bettor and is not using big amounts so he doesn't care.

[Euler]

I'll agree that ignorant is probably a better word

[andyfuller]

Do the masses really know and understand the exchange ?
...
i know to us it seems so obvious to use the exchange. Im just thinking of the general public and what they are being 'sold'

I think a lack of understanding of the exchange is quite a big issue. It is far easier to place a bet via a Sportsbook, whoever the provider is.

It is in general quicker and easier. As such people are happy to 'pay' for that service by taking poorer odds. This doesn't apply to all as some will not even be aware of the option of the exchange but for those that are they are quite happy to take worse odds for the convenience.

An analogy is switching bank current accounts. If you stay with you bank current account over time you are likely to be able to get a better interest rate and other features by switching to another bank.

However, for many they are happy to sacrifice the relatively small benefits to stick to what they know and what is easy for them.

The banks know most aren't going to switch despite recent changes to make it easier so they continue to take the pi$$.

[Alpha322]

Only people that cannot achieve the trading game will use the sportsbook, i thought i would never be using the stakes Peter was using, people say that some of the trading videos are used to entice people, no its skill and anybody can achieve it we all have the same blood and brain cells, i too agree with peter i will not return to a bookmaker no way no how

[Archangel]

Do the masses really know and understand the exchange ?
...
i know to us it seems so obvious to use the exchange. Im just thinking of the general public and what they are being 'sold'

I think a lack of understanding of the exchange is quite a big issue. It is far easier to place a bet via a Sportsbook, whoever the provider is.

It is in general quicker and easier. As such people are happy to 'pay' for that service by taking poorer odds. This doesn't apply to all as some will not even be aware of the option of the exchange but for those that are they are quite happy to take worse odds for the convenience.

An analogy is switching bank current accounts. If you stay with you bank current account over time you are likely to be able to get a better interest rate and other features by switching to another bank.

However, for many they are happy to sacrifice the relatively small benefits to stick to what they know and what is easy for them.

The banks know most aren't going to switch despite recent changes to make it easier so they continue to take the pi$$.

Yeah for sure its much easier to sit on your sofa, place a bet on the race or the footie on the Sportsbook... tap, tap... boom. The whole process is made so easy. The average punter prob has no idea what the value of the odds he is getting
Trading on an exchange is just such a different concept to all that. The real problem is there are not that many traders to really matter

[Archangel]

£2.8m matched on the 15:05 on Betdaq
£3.5m on Betfair
Hardly a massive difference !