Here's an alternative perspective.
I would hazard that, for a select few, trading is a source of regular income, but most participants in this sum zero game are gamblers and net losers. The latter are little different to the Vegas tourists who try their luck against seasoned card counters or the roulette wheel.
Let's say, for argument's sake, that big profit figures motivate the winners (and the comments on this thread suggest that perhaps they do). Won't they also motivate the losers to risk more of their money, inadvertently contributing to them losing more and more money? And if the losers vastly outnumber the winners, is that not a bad thing?
Jeff
Just blown another bank
its unusal for me to read a complete thread of this nature. to me they usually seem quite pointless; they just go round and round and round.
i see nothing right or wrong with posting P and L's big, small, red or green, as long as there is a context.
often the context seems to be non existant or just gets lost, and the tread goes round and round.
i think this thread started as someone trying to help to get their "frustration" out of their system so to speak (please correct if wrong, i often get the wrong end of the stick), after making what i assume was a dumb/silly mistake/error.
now i am not sure what the context is, although strangely i find to be a interesting/worthwhile thread.
i see nothing right or wrong with posting P and L's big, small, red or green, as long as there is a context.
often the context seems to be non existant or just gets lost, and the tread goes round and round.
i think this thread started as someone trying to help to get their "frustration" out of their system so to speak (please correct if wrong, i often get the wrong end of the stick), after making what i assume was a dumb/silly mistake/error.
now i am not sure what the context is, although strangely i find to be a interesting/worthwhile thread.
They have to learn about the sport obviously, this is what successful punters have always done (as opposed to traders who don't actually need knowledge of the sport to profit).How is a newbie supposed to find value?
You need much less analysis than you might think to find value - you just need a basic form guide and some basic knowledge about horse racing. As Peter Le said, you don't need perfection - you can choose the depth of your analysis.And how is finding value simple? Surely you need to analyse a race in some depth to be confident that the market has mis-priced a horse.
Jeff
So for value betting, you can start with just some very basic knowledge about horse racing and form. Again, this is what successful punters have always done. Analysis of form is the hard bit, after that's out of the way, the mechanics of value trading/betting are very simple - just pick the price you want, set it and forget it.
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Deeppockets
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:16 pm
If I could look over your shoulders, that would work for me!Euler wrote:I'm mulling bringing some traders into the office and looking over their shoulders, that would work.
I like looking at p@l it shows what can be done, but i can also see the point that it pushes other's to take risks to try and make big money.
If you gave peter a £500 bank how much could he make per day?? maybe £200 profit?
I'v got a feeling theres traders on here tring to make over £100 per day with that kind of bank and it pushes them to take risks to do so which can lead to a total lose of bank very quickly.
With a £500 bank if you can average wins of over £20 for a days work you are doing ok.
If you gave peter a £500 bank how much could he make per day?? maybe £200 profit?
I'v got a feeling theres traders on here tring to make over £100 per day with that kind of bank and it pushes them to take risks to do so which can lead to a total lose of bank very quickly.
With a £500 bank if you can average wins of over £20 for a days work you are doing ok.
Marko,
I agree. The rational approach is to just focus on your own game and play within your limits. However, when you see someone doing far better than you, it can be easy to think you're missing out, get frustrated, and do something stupid.
Jeff
I agree. The rational approach is to just focus on your own game and play within your limits. However, when you see someone doing far better than you, it can be easy to think you're missing out, get frustrated, and do something stupid.
Jeff
Yes, I agree with that.marko236 wrote:If you gave peter a £500 bank how much could he make per day?? maybe £200 profit?
I'v got a feeling theres traders on here tring to make over £100 per day with that kind of bank and it pushes them to take risks to do so which can lead to a total lose of bank very quickly.
With a £500 bank if you can average wins of over £20 for a days work you are doing ok.
I was really disappointed when Peter discontinued his £10 trader project, as would have been of greater interest to me than him posting £250+ on various races
What newbies forget is that if you targeted 10% of your bank each day as earnings (before 5% commission), it would take less than 3 months to turn £10 into £20,000
Perhaps we all have a conflict. Certainly I need BA to exist to employ my own strategies.
There is a wealth of information in this thread that should be read by everyone from the novice to the expert.
IMHO each person must find their own way. I probably can't trade like Peter (even if he stands over my shoulder or I stand over his), but nor could I trade like mugs or analyse a race like Jollygreen. I'm not Warren Buffet or Bill Gross. I work in my own way, along my own path. It's not perfect. But it consistently makes money day after day, week after week. Not enough to live on, but enough to go on a few luxury holidays for a family of five each year.
Do I find inspiration and lessons in these forums, all the time. Happy Easter.
There is a wealth of information in this thread that should be read by everyone from the novice to the expert.
IMHO each person must find their own way. I probably can't trade like Peter (even if he stands over my shoulder or I stand over his), but nor could I trade like mugs or analyse a race like Jollygreen. I'm not Warren Buffet or Bill Gross. I work in my own way, along my own path. It's not perfect. But it consistently makes money day after day, week after week. Not enough to live on, but enough to go on a few luxury holidays for a family of five each year.
Do I find inspiration and lessons in these forums, all the time. Happy Easter.
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tweebie1999
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:23 am
It would be useful when posting large wins if the traders who tend to do this could give a little more info. For example it would be much more useful to know how much money was put through the market to achieve the given result. A win figure on it's own is motivating but not terribly informative.
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spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
I think the problem with the cherry picked pnl shots is they give new traders a false idea of what to expect. Adam's screenshots were much more inspiring as they showed the days/months pnl and what could be achieved on a consistent basis which is much more important than the odd big win.marko236 wrote:I like looking at p@l it shows what can be done, but i can also see the point that it pushes other's to take risks to try and make big money.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
I agree with this, it would be helpful to show the matched bets imo.tweebie1999 wrote:It would be useful when posting large wins if the traders who tend to do this could give a little more info. For example it would be much more useful to know how much money was put through the market to achieve the given result. A win figure on it's own is motivating but not terribly informative.
Just to add my experience, I lost multiple banks. When I say multiple I mean A LOT and they weren't small either. Like it's frightening to think back at what I used to do. I came from a gambling background, I also was pretty reckless mentally and wasn't scared of risking "everything".
But I am a firm believer that you learn from your mistakes and I would never give up.
Not too long ago the proverbial penny did dropeth. Oh hallelujah!!! What would I have done.
I definitely do liken it to the that cycle starting with unconscious incompetence, then conscious incompetence, then conscious competence, ending with unconscious competence. I am not right at the end but I alternate between the last two stages. Every now then I will experience the 2nd stage but that's where I can snap out of it.
Anyway it possible to get there and as far as people posting p&l it doesn't actually matter, it's a free world. I find it funny when people get really irritated by other's behaviours, don't let anyone get to you and believe in yourself and your views. If you don't believe something then don't believe it the end. Be positive.
But I am a firm believer that you learn from your mistakes and I would never give up.
Not too long ago the proverbial penny did dropeth. Oh hallelujah!!! What would I have done.
I definitely do liken it to the that cycle starting with unconscious incompetence, then conscious incompetence, then conscious competence, ending with unconscious competence. I am not right at the end but I alternate between the last two stages. Every now then I will experience the 2nd stage but that's where I can snap out of it.
Anyway it possible to get there and as far as people posting p&l it doesn't actually matter, it's a free world. I find it funny when people get really irritated by other's behaviours, don't let anyone get to you and believe in yourself and your views. If you don't believe something then don't believe it the end. Be positive.
