Slow cycle rate on Guardian

[Mattlindsay]

Hi

I'm a real novice and have been working on a theory of laying the Fav in running on all horse races in the UK & IRE when the Fav reaches a certain price then backing the same horse 32 ticks higher.
My problem is when doing this in test mode with Guardian quite often the price is either missed taken early or late meaning I either miss the bet completely or its only part completed or even worse if its taken early I am more exposed than I would like. I've spoken to a chap from Bet Angel who said its a slow cycle rate on Guardian and that I should visit the forum for answers.
I understand that both prices maybe matched in the final strides of a race but should this result in my bet not being placed
Can anyone help me with the cycle rate or should I use a spreadsheet to ensure all bets are placed.
Many thanks to you all in advance.

A keen newbe trader

[hilly2908]

Hi, if i understand your question correctly it seems the problem is with how the bets are being placed rather than the cycle or refresh rate of guardian.
You need to create a rule the following way

Rule Type
"Place a lay bet"
Arm trigger at 1 secs after event start time
Allow rule to trigger 1 time.


Apply selection to "by position sorted in order of favourtism" (this will ensure your lay is place on which ever horse is the favourite at the off time)

Parameters.

Place at fixed odds (selected the lay price of your choice)

In the global setting box select "offset bet with greening" enter 32 for the amount of ticks and tick the fill or kill box and set it to 600 (that will keep your offset bet active for 5mins if and when your lay is taken).

Hope that helps
Andy

[Mattlindsay]

Hi Andy,

Many thanks for your advice, I've now loaded the information but the programme is asking to offset batches should this be 32 the same as the ticks.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Matt

[hilly2908]

Hi
Generally if using small stakes (upto £50) then it can be set as 1 if using larger stakes then you might want to increase the number slightly - this link explains how offset batches work and what it means and you will know after reading this what suits your stratergy best.

http://www.betangel.com/user-guide/offs ... =&sct=MA==

Also having looked back at my first reply i noticed i did nt give you the full correct info on the first part - it should be like this

Rule Type
"place a lay bet"
Rule trigger times
"Reletive to event start time"
Arm trigger at 00:00:01 after event start time
Until 00:00:10 after event start time

The rest of my first post was right but once all thats done and you have clicked "Apply" at the top left of the rules box there is a green plus sign click that to add the final bit of the rule

Rule type
"keep all unmatched bets"
Then click apply again

and thats it all set up.

Any questions let me know

Good luck
Regards
Andy

[Mattlindsay]

Hi Andy

Thanks for your help on my questions.

From your two answers I have a couple of questions;-

1. You say arm trigger until 00.00.10 after start time should this not be 00.10.00 after start time 10 minutes rather than 10 seconds. (It's probably me not understanding the programme but I thought I'd check)

2. Using fill or kill will ensure both sides of my bet are taken or it will kill the bet (I can't lose any money when the programme is correct) is that correct

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Matt

[hilly2908]

Hi Matt
It does nt really matter what time you arm the trigger till i said 10 secs just incase your internet or BA stuttered momenterally and was nt not able to arm immedietly on the 1 sec point, but to be extra safe you could set it to arm from 1 sec till several mins after the event start time.

The fill or kill will work as follows

The lay bet will be placed at your choosen odds (eg 2.00) if the price shortens to that it will match and your back bet will then be placed automatically 32 ticks higher (or what ever you set it as) in this case it would be 2.64 then if the price comes back up to this it will match and green up. If the price does not get as low as your choosen odds then the lay bet wont be taken and no back bet will get placed so it could go down to 2.08 then back out and nothing will be matched.

You could lose if the price shortens to 2.00 and does not drift back out and just continues down as the horse romps home

Regards
Andy

[Mattlindsay]

Hi Andy

After the first couple of races I've noticed the lay price Is being taken at the off time at whatever the fav is trading at then greening up 32 places higher.

What I'd like the programme to do is only place the lay bet in running when the odd's get to 21-1 then green up 32 ticks higher.

Can you help please

[hilly2908]

Hi
I see so you only want to lay the favourite as the price drifts out (as though its well beat) and not if it comes in with the expectation that its going to run out of steam at any moment is that right?

Regards
Andy

[Mattlindsay]

Hi

That's correct it's as good as run it's race and is now drifting (the odd one will win but vey few) I hope
Hence why I only want the first lay bet to be placed in running at that price then green up 32 ticks higher.
If there is a way to use fill or kill to protect my original stake that would be great (the icing on the cake)

The rest of the programme is spot on and working well but I can't find a way to place the original bet at the lay price.

I'm hoping you can help.

Matt

[hilly2908]

Hi Matt

No problem, If you go back in and edit the original rule i gave you and change the following on the first rule

Applies to the selection ( by row index betfair order) choose "1"

Now on the 3rd tab along (Condition) add the following

Condition Type

"Fixed odds condition"
Current in row 1 betfair order
The Selections
"Last Tradeded Price"
Greater than (16.0)

What you are effectivly doing here is only asking guardian to place the bet if the odds trade greater than you specify.

When slecting this price bear in mind that if you choose say 21.0 in the 2 sec delay it takes all bets to hit the market it may be even higher therefore your lay bet will be placed at 21 and only be taken if if the price drops back down so you might want to set this around 16.0 then by the time your bet hits the market price may be around 21.0 if its any higher it will still wait to be matched if its still below 21.0 when your lay hits the market it will match you at the best price avalible.

That should do it.

Also i have never used the following but noticed that if you add another rule (using the plus in top left corner again and choose the follwoing rule type "export to profit and loss") this may save your practice results but i ve never tried this in either pratice or real mode so dont know how the report is generated and whats in it etc but it may help you.

Regards
Andy

[hilly2908]

Also forgot to add the following which you will need to edit and change to

Rule trigger
Relative to in play time
00:00:02
00:06:00
(you can also delete the keep bets part of rule since the trigger is now only arming after its already gone in play)

Regards
Andy

[Mattlindsay]

Hi Andy

For whatever reason the programme does not appear to be placing the bets in the market.

This is what I currently have;-

General

Rule trigger times
relative to in play time
Arm trigger at 00.00.01 after event goes in play
Until 00.00.10 after event goes in play

Allow rule to trigger up to 1 time
Wait 0.1 seconds before rearming
Applies to selection in row one betfair order

Parameters

Fixed price odds 21
Stake fixed amount £50

Global settings
Action Offset with Greening
Offset (ticks) 32
Place fill or kill bets 300 seconds delay
Offset batches 1

Conditions

Condition type Fixed odds condition
Selection
Current in row 1 betfair order
The selections Last traded price
Is greater than 16

Can you see anything which is programmed wrong or is it a case of writing the programme on a spreadsheet to ensure the orders are taken.

Regards

Matt

[hilly2908]

Hi
Yes its the rule trigger part thats has slightly wrong, you will need to use the setting i sent in my last message as the one you have stated your using means that if the bet is not placed within 10 sec of the off then no bet is placed, it should be

Rule trigger
Relative to in play time
00:00:02 (after the off)
00:06:00 (after the off)

This will allow the bet to trigger upto 6 mins after the off - you currently have it sent to only trigger in the first 10 secs if the odds pass 16.0

Regards
Andy

[Mattlindsay]

Hi Andy

I just wanted to say thanks as the programme is now working. As it is in practice mode not all the bets are being matched with your knowledge and experience would you think a lot more will become live when its real money.

Thanks again for all your help.

Matt

[hilly2908]

Hi Matt
Glad to hear you got it all working, using practice mode pre race it is near perfect but as the odds during in-play bounce around so fast as you have said there are a few instances where bets would of been matched had they been real just practice mode was nt able to simulate it during in play conditions.

For this type of stratergy you need the favourite to drift out relativly easy and start to tire from a early/mid point in the race so as allow your bet to trigger and be placed before the price shots way past, if its looking like winning and is only beat in the closing furlong the price will suddenly fly out so fast as it passes your trigger at 16 by the time the 2 sec delay places your lay at 21 the price is already now over 200/1 the same as if it falls in a NH race it will go from its current price to 1000/1 in a split second.

Best advice i could give is to watch it closely in practice mode when a bet is placed and showing on the ladder/grid if you see the price move past that without it being taken then you know had it been real money it would of been - thats goes for both your lay and offset back bet.

Once your confident thats the case try it with real money just £1 stakes but be ready with the mouse just in case you want to exit the trade manually - at this same time you can also tweek your settings if by watching exactly whats happening you can see ways of incresing your profits (ie, adding a stop loss, changing your tick offset or your trigger price of 16 etc).

Then once your 100% happy leave it run with real money still at £1 stakes on full automation and records your daily results for a while then increase your stake when your happy enough you have done enough trial and testing.

I wish you good luck on your journey and hope that all helps and feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

Regards
Andy