I thought this post was interesting :
http://www.richardmunchkin.com/2015/07/ ... mmons.html
Munchkin is a Blackjack Hall of Famer, (which is not easy), and knows as much as anyone, about casino gambling.
Sharing, in gambling is hard - its not thought to be a team sport - but, if u are applying some sort of kelly betting, does it really hurt u, to share .. that u think the 3/1, something, is a decent bet, when u are already on ?
Munchkin co-hosts a podcast, with a video poker expert, who has a mthly meeting of a few select gamblers. People are free to join this group, so long, as everyone once in a while, they give a presentation to the group, on their specialist subject.
The group has 4 members.
I was wondering, whether a gambling group, for traders, would work ?
Sharing sweeties
You seem to have quite the comma fetish, don't you? 
I think it's an excellent question, whether a trading group would work or not. I can share my recent experience on this subject.
I was posting and writing guides on a local forum to help out newbies with trading because there was no info whatsoever in our language. And I was starting to think that I was perhaps the only trader in my country until I was approached by another trader (via that forum) who invited me to join his group of 4, they use a Skype chatroom to communicate and basically share everything with one another, including their edge via Skype screen sharing.
I was pretty shocked because the guy didn't even ask me to join, he just added me to their Skype room on his own and just like that I became a part of their group, or so I thought at the time. Apparently the group was formed on mutual trust and it was not mandatory to share everything, it was optional. I must admit that I enjoyed the company and the social aspect of the group, but I thought it was odd that I haven't seen a single picture or any other proof of profit from any of them, the only one who showed anything was me and I showed it to the group leader who contacted me before I even knew about the group. They basically had 5+ years of trading experience on me but only 2 apparently managed to reach the first level of PC, the other two were struggling still. We had a lot of suprisingly open conversations but I wasn't very impressed with their overall knowledge of the markets.
Then a few weeks after I joined them the chatroom goes completely quiet, two entire weeks without anyone saying a single word and it was clear that they created a new room without telling me (they confirmed that later), one of them even deleted me from Skype without saying a word and I thought we were getting along great. Needless to say my man-feelings were definitely hurt
So I wished them good luck and left the "group", it seemed to me like they just invited me to see what they can gain from me, so my cautious approach was the correct approach. I honestly don't even know if they were pro(fitable) traders at all, I guess anything is possible.
But regardless of what happened with the group, this experience showed me that I actually enjoyed being part of a group, which I previously thought was almost impossible due to the nature of trading. So perhaps I will explore this option in the future if I meet likeminded traders that I could trust. In the meantime I created a Skype room of my own where I gathered a few aspiring Croatian traders with the right mentality and personality to try and mentor them (for free) to pro status, it's going really well and we're having fun as well, so we'll see where it takes us. Oddly enough, mentoring someone else actually benefits me as well, I notice and understand things that I probably wouldn't or couldn't otherwise.
I guess trading groups can work in the right conditions, although I still don't think that traders should fully disclose all of their secrets, not even to their closest friends.
I think it's an excellent question, whether a trading group would work or not. I can share my recent experience on this subject.
I was posting and writing guides on a local forum to help out newbies with trading because there was no info whatsoever in our language. And I was starting to think that I was perhaps the only trader in my country until I was approached by another trader (via that forum) who invited me to join his group of 4, they use a Skype chatroom to communicate and basically share everything with one another, including their edge via Skype screen sharing.
I was pretty shocked because the guy didn't even ask me to join, he just added me to their Skype room on his own and just like that I became a part of their group, or so I thought at the time. Apparently the group was formed on mutual trust and it was not mandatory to share everything, it was optional. I must admit that I enjoyed the company and the social aspect of the group, but I thought it was odd that I haven't seen a single picture or any other proof of profit from any of them, the only one who showed anything was me and I showed it to the group leader who contacted me before I even knew about the group. They basically had 5+ years of trading experience on me but only 2 apparently managed to reach the first level of PC, the other two were struggling still. We had a lot of suprisingly open conversations but I wasn't very impressed with their overall knowledge of the markets.
Then a few weeks after I joined them the chatroom goes completely quiet, two entire weeks without anyone saying a single word and it was clear that they created a new room without telling me (they confirmed that later), one of them even deleted me from Skype without saying a word and I thought we were getting along great. Needless to say my man-feelings were definitely hurt
So I wished them good luck and left the "group", it seemed to me like they just invited me to see what they can gain from me, so my cautious approach was the correct approach. I honestly don't even know if they were pro(fitable) traders at all, I guess anything is possible.But regardless of what happened with the group, this experience showed me that I actually enjoyed being part of a group, which I previously thought was almost impossible due to the nature of trading. So perhaps I will explore this option in the future if I meet likeminded traders that I could trust. In the meantime I created a Skype room of my own where I gathered a few aspiring Croatian traders with the right mentality and personality to try and mentor them (for free) to pro status, it's going really well and we're having fun as well, so we'll see where it takes us. Oddly enough, mentoring someone else actually benefits me as well, I notice and understand things that I probably wouldn't or couldn't otherwise.
I guess trading groups can work in the right conditions, although I still don't think that traders should fully disclose all of their secrets, not even to their closest friends.
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tomallen123
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:52 pm
Mega, I know from reading your blog that you play poker and poker groups are pretty common. Talking about poker and analysing hands is good for development and I'm sure the same could work for betfair.
Trading is a very solitary lifestyle and I found myself recently logging onto betfair forum to chat with people about games I was trading.
As long as people are on a similar level and the sharing goes both ways then I'm sure it'd work.
Trading is a very solitary lifestyle and I found myself recently logging onto betfair forum to chat with people about games I was trading.
As long as people are on a similar level and the sharing goes both ways then I'm sure it'd work.
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tomallen123
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:52 pm
Archangel wrote:I wonder will we see traders "streaming live" via Twitch or some similar service the way video gamers are now ?
I had thought about this but after seeing how many hits on youtube trading videos get (not many), I don't see it as being worth it.
Me too, I regularly watch Twitch streams and e-sports because of my online gaming background. It would be incredible to stream trading as well.Archangel wrote:I wonder will we see traders "streaming live" via Twitch or some similar service the way video gamers are now ?
I think it certainly could work, if all members were of a similar level and willing to share. I cannot imagine a diverse group , where some may have a 'hard won' edge, sharing this readily with every newcomermegarain wrote: I was wondering, whether a gambling group, for traders, would work ?
Thx for the replies.
Kai - I cant imagine what it must be like, to try and trade mkts from a foreign country, with unreliable internet/additional picture delays (presumably).
I know Betfair is a global company, but, it would be interesting to know the number of PC payers per country.
I agree sharing is v difficult - inevitably someone will mis-interpret what someone has advised, there will be a financial loss, and there will be general grief. This normally comes about thru mis-communication, but, also occurs, as betting is dynamic, and u need to have Plan B/C/D ready, should something negative happen to your trade.
Twitch is a v interesting platform, and I have thght about setting up a stream, to watch me trade a mkt. I havent done anything yet, as I dont think there is enough critical mass of users, but, I am generally open to the idea.
U are probably aware, apart from twitch.tv, there are sites like ticker.tv, where forex traders etc, show a trading day. They tend to charge a mthly fee for their insight, and, I cant decide, what would be an appropriate fee for a betfair trader. It might be, the service is worth .. say £500 a mth, but, the mkt will only pay £5 a mth .. so, with the huge gap, its probably too early.
Kai - I cant imagine what it must be like, to try and trade mkts from a foreign country, with unreliable internet/additional picture delays (presumably).
I know Betfair is a global company, but, it would be interesting to know the number of PC payers per country.
I agree sharing is v difficult - inevitably someone will mis-interpret what someone has advised, there will be a financial loss, and there will be general grief. This normally comes about thru mis-communication, but, also occurs, as betting is dynamic, and u need to have Plan B/C/D ready, should something negative happen to your trade.
Twitch is a v interesting platform, and I have thght about setting up a stream, to watch me trade a mkt. I havent done anything yet, as I dont think there is enough critical mass of users, but, I am generally open to the idea.
U are probably aware, apart from twitch.tv, there are sites like ticker.tv, where forex traders etc, show a trading day. They tend to charge a mthly fee for their insight, and, I cant decide, what would be an appropriate fee for a betfair trader. It might be, the service is worth .. say £500 a mth, but, the mkt will only pay £5 a mth .. so, with the huge gap, its probably too early.
Believe it or not the rest of Europe has stable internet too!megarain wrote:Kai - I cant imagine what it must be like, to try and trade mkts from a foreign country, with unreliable internet/additional picture delays (presumably).
Well there are no real handicaps trading from a non-UK country, providing of course that the English language is not a barrier. My trading honestly doesn't depend on delays so that's completely irrelevant as well. I actually consider myself to be in a privileged position, compared to British traders, simply because the average monthly wage in Croatia is only £500 (compared to £2200 in the UK), which basically means that every pound that I earn while trading is worth 4 times more than any pound a British trader earns. That is one hell of an advantage to have, so it is a lot easier to go full time. But the cost of living in Croatia isn't even that low, it's on par with Portugal, Poland etc. The average wage for Eastern European countries like Serbia (£250) and Ukraine (£100) is ridiculously low. Well, you get the picture.
Living in a "shitty" country does have it's benefits
That is why you see a lot of greyhound traders from Poland, Romania and Czech Republic who don't mind grinding those markets for profit every day. Traders from said countries who manage to get 5 figures every month can get absolutely ridiculous value for that hard-earned money, that's honestly something that traders from UK/Sweden/Swiss etc can only dream of.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_E ... erage_wage
Not everyone has to sound like BoratBlack Ice wrote:Hi Kai,
Your written English is so excellent...you must have spent several years in UK at least? Not being patronising...just interested that's all!
But we usually do hah! Yeah you do have a point, but I'm used to such comments, it's because I've spent 10 years hanging out with Brits and Americans in Ventrilo/Teamspeak and other voice communication programs when I was gaming online with them. My accent actually sounds American as well so you'd think I was a Yank I trolled many a Brit in that way when I was a young'un! I honestly don't know, I just have a thing for languages and accents in general, it comes naturally to me for some reason so I'm pretty fluent in a few of them. I don't make a big deal out of it because it's not a very useful skill, eloquence is not as profitable as trading, but I think everyone should be able to speak normal English in this day and age.No, I've never been to UK before but I'm a big fan of British culture and a huge Liverpool FC fan so I would love to visit someday. Although that day may come sooner rather than later if they change the gambling laws over here like they did in Portugal, because I would need to verify a UK address to continue working.
I hope that satisfies your curiousity
