Hello everyone.
My name is Scott.
I am new to the bet angel forum, I have been using betfair for nearly 10 years, I have developed racing prediction software, numerous betfair bots, coded software with my own developer over the years.
I have never really put the effort into learning pre race trading and I have recently realise how naive and blind I have been.
I guess due to my racing/gambling experience and knowledge I have picked this up incredibly quickly. I could fully work my way around bet angel and all its features, just after a few hours of messing around.
I have a suggestion that possibly someone (maybe bet angel) could create if they think its an good idea? But this is why forums are designed, to discuss and advise.
This may already exist? I'm not sure...
The concept of trading. I understand.
How to trade (to a amateur level). I understand.
Using bet angels features. I understand.
But what I feel is completely missing is a warm up/training program.
Just like a professional footballer, They would never just turn up to the stadium, get changed and run straight onto the pitch ready to play.
Of course they warm up, Compose themselves, exercise and prepare.
So my idea? An interactive daily warm up program.
How would this work? Well it would be part of bet angel.
It could simulate betting markets, It would ask to click around the ladder, the markets with the cursor, reacting quicker and pushing your limits.
Show graphs. For example have 4 runners of graphs and ask you to quickly pick the horse that is going to drift? or steam in?
It would benefit everyone, amateurs and full time professional trainers, It would teach you awareness, confidence, self belief, get you alert ready to trade for the day.
It would also massively improve you as new trader, as making the right decision is just a small problem but entering and exited quickly and efficiently is even bigger.
It would not teach you strategies, but it would train your natural ability.
I could teach you how to play football, but I cant give you the fitness to play?
We can all learn to trade, how to trade, when to trade. But having the ability is another ball game.
This feature could teach you stop losses. It will show poor trades in front of you and you have to click when you should get out?
If this is available, I am sorry to waste anyone's time, If not I would be interested to see your opinions.
Either way, thank you
Scott
A good training method?
Not going to work IMO, experienced traders trade markets on and off through out the whole day and night even those that may only trade limited markets say the the UK horses already know what there doing so in there spare time on a morning are not going to spend it on a simulator.
For novice/newbie traders there is the built in practice mode in BA which mirrors the real market actvity so is better than any simulator will be while your finding your feet with the BA functions or testing new stratergies
Nobody trades the same in practice or simulation mode as they do when they have real money is at risk so the only true way to learn to trade is with real money on the live markets.
For novice/newbie traders there is the built in practice mode in BA which mirrors the real market actvity so is better than any simulator will be while your finding your feet with the BA functions or testing new stratergies
Nobody trades the same in practice or simulation mode as they do when they have real money is at risk so the only true way to learn to trade is with real money on the live markets.
Thank you for your reply Dallas,
I agree and I disagree at the same time.
Just because someone has a 70% strike rate and is making an excellent income, doesn't mean they are using there full potential.
Let me explain. Stuart Bingham won the world championship snooker this year. Any day he is an excellent player. A world champion? He played almost every tournament leading up to the world championship.
Just because your making a profit and are successful, it does not mean you are useing your full potential or at your best. does it?
Here is another analogy for it.
Football- When a team of players train daily. Are they simulating a real football match? are they playing 90 minutes of competitive football everyday? No.
Training for trading would work in the same way. Playing real markets is not training.
I agree you will only learn by playing real markets, Thats experience. Yes. You will improve but you will also make your self limited over a period of time.
This is the concept of warming up/training.
Why do people train? because it takes you away from the real scenario, It gives you time to develop, think, prepare and most importantly improve something your unaware of.
Ok, Im trading for real, This secenario keeps happening, Ive been trading 10 years, but yet there still is this little tweak that keeps happening. Are you going to take your bread and butter away from you to practise this for real, when there is a few hundred quid their you can take instead?
FOOTBALL- A defender, "uh- What is it with Ronaldo?, I can get the ball off him!" When they play for real, hes not going to try new methods during a match? he will stick to the system/strategy that works. but that doesn't mean he couldnt get better and improve
This idea is about improving, being the best you can. on the top of your game and quicker for a novices perspective.
This idea could really help beginers, there are millions of different possibilites to do in this training program. You could use it 5 minutes a day. 2 hours a day, or once a week, theres no right or wrong.
It doesnt matter how good I am at something, I can get better, I can improve and you know what open mindness really makes a difference.
Scott
I agree and I disagree at the same time.
Just because someone has a 70% strike rate and is making an excellent income, doesn't mean they are using there full potential.
Let me explain. Stuart Bingham won the world championship snooker this year. Any day he is an excellent player. A world champion? He played almost every tournament leading up to the world championship.
Just because your making a profit and are successful, it does not mean you are useing your full potential or at your best. does it?
Here is another analogy for it.
Football- When a team of players train daily. Are they simulating a real football match? are they playing 90 minutes of competitive football everyday? No.
Training for trading would work in the same way. Playing real markets is not training.
I agree you will only learn by playing real markets, Thats experience. Yes. You will improve but you will also make your self limited over a period of time.
This is the concept of warming up/training.
Why do people train? because it takes you away from the real scenario, It gives you time to develop, think, prepare and most importantly improve something your unaware of.
Ok, Im trading for real, This secenario keeps happening, Ive been trading 10 years, but yet there still is this little tweak that keeps happening. Are you going to take your bread and butter away from you to practise this for real, when there is a few hundred quid their you can take instead?
FOOTBALL- A defender, "uh- What is it with Ronaldo?, I can get the ball off him!" When they play for real, hes not going to try new methods during a match? he will stick to the system/strategy that works. but that doesn't mean he couldnt get better and improve
This idea is about improving, being the best you can. on the top of your game and quicker for a novices perspective.
This idea could really help beginers, there are millions of different possibilites to do in this training program. You could use it 5 minutes a day. 2 hours a day, or once a week, theres no right or wrong.
It doesnt matter how good I am at something, I can get better, I can improve and you know what open mindness really makes a difference.
Scott
Cannot work for many reasons, a little tutorial is not going to teach you how to trade profitably, this isn't a video game. Practice mode is already the perfect "tutorial" because you can simulate almost anything. Also, you can find countless tutorial videos on the Youtube channel.
One of the problems with what you're proposing is that there are many trading styles that can drastically vary from one another, a tutorial of sorts could never even cover most of them. Nor would it be in the best interests of software vendors like Euler, because his masterclass can be seen as a "tutorial" of sorts and it would be directly in conflict with what you're proposing. You are also forgetting that Bet Angel is not just used by traders, people use it for betting and various automation as well.
But be careful with what you think you know about trading from just a few hours of messing around. Understanding Bet Angel features is the easy part, the hard part is using some of those features to consistently make a profit.
One of the problems with what you're proposing is that there are many trading styles that can drastically vary from one another, a tutorial of sorts could never even cover most of them. Nor would it be in the best interests of software vendors like Euler, because his masterclass can be seen as a "tutorial" of sorts and it would be directly in conflict with what you're proposing. You are also forgetting that Bet Angel is not just used by traders, people use it for betting and various automation as well.
But be careful with what you think you know about trading from just a few hours of messing around. Understanding Bet Angel features is the easy part, the hard part is using some of those features to consistently make a profit.
Tha
Thank you for your input.
Please let me clarify some things.
When I said I could use my way around bet angel after a few hours, This does not mean I have no experience. What I said was, I have never used bet angel before, Due to my knowledge I was able to fully understand and use all the features (because of my ability)
I understand racing markets, In a far better way then anyone who has read this probably thinks.
I am new to pre race trading, This does not mean I am an amateur to gambling. I am very very good at gambling. But I am new to trading using a common method you use.
I have never looked at a race before the off and made a trade or a bet without looking at a graph or strategies in a trading perspective.
Now, This idea is not to take away the master-class. It is not to teach you strategies.
Its an idea concept that can improve you and make you a faster learning and keep you in shape.
Taking a loss is not a strategy. Showing you how to take a loss is not either.
This wouldn't tell you strategies, It would be a brain warm up, it would be make you more aware. It would improve you.
This idea would not teach you how to trade but to improve your ability.
Guys- this is an idea, this doesn't mean its going to happen.
I just think open mildness is a massive advantage.
Ok, your a professional trader, Your making a good living from it. Ask yourself? Can I improve?
The creator of betfair Is successful because he was open minded, He did something different.
I have come on board and I am learning to trade because I want to be better, this doesn't mean I'm failing in other aspects.
I live, breathe, eat horse racing. I am open to this and I want to improve, My level of ability is above average.
Let me take this scenario to you.
Like this.
I am a professional footballer, but now I am learning to become a professional golfer.
I have the natural ability, the tools, but not the skill,but the odds are very very high that if I take up golf, Im going to be good and Im probably already above average.
I am leaning to trade pre race markets. I have the ability due to my other fields, I just want to maximise my potential and had a light bulb moment, so I posted it.
Just because this idea would be pointless to someone who makes a living from it, doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit them.
Everyday Wayne Rooney runs around cones at a training ground, How pointless is that?
My method/idea may not be the answer I amm just being open minded.
Thank you.
Scott
Kai wrote:Cannot work for many reasons, a little tutorial is not going to teach you how to trade profitably, this isn't a video game. Practice mode is already the perfect "tutorial" because you can simulate almost anything. Also, you can find countless tutorial videos on the Youtube channel.
One of the problems with what you're proposing is that there are many trading styles that can drastically vary from one another, a tutorial of sorts could never even cover most of them. Nor would it be in the best interests of software vendors like Euler, because his masterclass can be seen as a "tutorial" of sorts and it would be directly in conflict with what you're proposing. You are also forgetting that Bet Angel is not just used by traders, people use it for betting and various automation as well.
But be careful with what you think you know about trading from just a few hours of messing around. Understanding Bet Angel features is the easy part, the hard part is using some of those features to consistently make a profit.
Thank you for your input.
Please let me clarify some things.
When I said I could use my way around bet angel after a few hours, This does not mean I have no experience. What I said was, I have never used bet angel before, Due to my knowledge I was able to fully understand and use all the features (because of my ability)
I understand racing markets, In a far better way then anyone who has read this probably thinks.
I am new to pre race trading, This does not mean I am an amateur to gambling. I am very very good at gambling. But I am new to trading using a common method you use.
I have never looked at a race before the off and made a trade or a bet without looking at a graph or strategies in a trading perspective.
Now, This idea is not to take away the master-class. It is not to teach you strategies.
Its an idea concept that can improve you and make you a faster learning and keep you in shape.
Taking a loss is not a strategy. Showing you how to take a loss is not either.
This wouldn't tell you strategies, It would be a brain warm up, it would be make you more aware. It would improve you.
This idea would not teach you how to trade but to improve your ability.
Guys- this is an idea, this doesn't mean its going to happen.
I just think open mildness is a massive advantage.
Ok, your a professional trader, Your making a good living from it. Ask yourself? Can I improve?
The creator of betfair Is successful because he was open minded, He did something different.
I have come on board and I am learning to trade because I want to be better, this doesn't mean I'm failing in other aspects.
I live, breathe, eat horse racing. I am open to this and I want to improve, My level of ability is above average.
Let me take this scenario to you.
Like this.
I am a professional footballer, but now I am learning to become a professional golfer.
I have the natural ability, the tools, but not the skill,but the odds are very very high that if I take up golf, Im going to be good and Im probably already above average.
I am leaning to trade pre race markets. I have the ability due to my other fields, I just want to maximise my potential and had a light bulb moment, so I posted it.
Just because this idea would be pointless to someone who makes a living from it, doesn't mean it wouldn't benefit them.
Everyday Wayne Rooney runs around cones at a training ground, How pointless is that?
My method/idea may not be the answer I amm just being open minded.
Thank you.
Scott
I understand what you're trying to say, but since you come from a gambling background perhaps you do not fully understand the complexity of trading in general. Because you are clearly operating under the assumption that this training tutorial would somehow benefit pro traders by warming them up before a trading session or something, which is your main argument, but it would not imho. It would have to be something very basic so that the majority of Bet Angel users could use it and that would automatically render it useless to pro traders. And you already know that there are different learning systems in place to help newbies out, such as practice mode, tutorial videos on Youtube and this forum.
I personally don't agree with your professional footballer analogy and I think it doesn't relate to trading at all, because you're obviously comparing a physical activity with a mental one, apples and oranges if you ask me.
I personally don't agree with your professional footballer analogy and I think it doesn't relate to trading at all, because you're obviously comparing a physical activity with a mental one, apples and oranges if you ask me.
Every experienced trader out there is constantly trying to improve and add to there skills on a daily basis in one way or another, I have never come across one yet who belives there at the top of there game and cant learn anything more no matter how much they make. (for me personally my main focus of improvment is I have been moving into tennis this year).
As well as the above the markets themselves are always evolving - what works now may not in a few years just as what worked back in 2010 may no longer be consistantly profitable so to be succesfull you have to be open minded and open to imporvement at all times and ready to embrace the changes as they come.
As Kia previoustly touched on there are so many aspects, ways and styles to trade a market not to mension the market types, horse racing, footbal, tennis, cricket etc
Its not that we are all up oursleves or closed minded it just that regardless of your trading experience improvement and progression is only gotten using real money in live markets, learning and trialing something new can be done in BA's practice mode which mirrors real markets so is better than any simulated program will be able to do.
For the reasons pointed in my 1st post trading trading is not something you need to "warm up" to each day, if anything maybe ease into the first few trades of the day but these still have to be live market trades - simulated or practice markets are psychological different.
As well as the above the markets themselves are always evolving - what works now may not in a few years just as what worked back in 2010 may no longer be consistantly profitable so to be succesfull you have to be open minded and open to imporvement at all times and ready to embrace the changes as they come.
As Kia previoustly touched on there are so many aspects, ways and styles to trade a market not to mension the market types, horse racing, footbal, tennis, cricket etc
Its not that we are all up oursleves or closed minded it just that regardless of your trading experience improvement and progression is only gotten using real money in live markets, learning and trialing something new can be done in BA's practice mode which mirrors real markets so is better than any simulated program will be able to do.
For the reasons pointed in my 1st post trading trading is not something you need to "warm up" to each day, if anything maybe ease into the first few trades of the day but these still have to be live market trades - simulated or practice markets are psychological different.
