Matchbook Traders Conference
We don't have a commercial relationship with Matchbook and very few people on the forum use Matchbook, so there was little reason to discuss it initially.
I would have quite happily talked at the conference but wasn't offered the chance. I think I could have deliver a good presentation given the audience.
I went but I knew pretty much everybody already, so it was just a chance for me to do a load of meetings in one place and meet a few faces I had been trying to see.
I've already met Matt Benham in the past and quite a few speakers are Bet Angel users so were well known to me; so I didn't learn anything new. It may have been different for others. It was great to get approached by a lot of Bet Angel customers, it was a delight to meet so many in person.
To their credit Matchbook positioned the event as a more generic trader conference and didn't stifle it with promotion of Matchbook. I thought they deserved a lot of credit for doing that.
Hopefully they will do another and it can gather momentum and a few sponsors to push it forward as a generic event in it's own right. Which seemed to be Matchbooks aim, again that deserves credit.
Mark Davis, ex Betfair MD, was the MC which was funny. I managed to have a good catch up with him. It was interesting to hear his views on the event and on Betfair in the post Bert era.
Betdaq and a number of other interested parties were also at the event, but didn't have a presence as such.
I also spotted Betfair at the event, so I'll make sure to send them a email to give them my thoughts
I would have quite happily talked at the conference but wasn't offered the chance. I think I could have deliver a good presentation given the audience.
I went but I knew pretty much everybody already, so it was just a chance for me to do a load of meetings in one place and meet a few faces I had been trying to see.
I've already met Matt Benham in the past and quite a few speakers are Bet Angel users so were well known to me; so I didn't learn anything new. It may have been different for others. It was great to get approached by a lot of Bet Angel customers, it was a delight to meet so many in person.
To their credit Matchbook positioned the event as a more generic trader conference and didn't stifle it with promotion of Matchbook. I thought they deserved a lot of credit for doing that.
Hopefully they will do another and it can gather momentum and a few sponsors to push it forward as a generic event in it's own right. Which seemed to be Matchbooks aim, again that deserves credit.
Mark Davis, ex Betfair MD, was the MC which was funny. I managed to have a good catch up with him. It was interesting to hear his views on the event and on Betfair in the post Bert era.
Betdaq and a number of other interested parties were also at the event, but didn't have a presence as such.
I also spotted Betfair at the event, so I'll make sure to send them a email to give them my thoughts
The previous posts about matchbook i have read on here suggest they seed there exchange themselves by following betfairs prices and as a consequence traders had difficulty withdrawing any winnings.
Was this brought up at the conference or is there any truth behind the this past or present?
Was this brought up at the conference or is there any truth behind the this past or present?
I'd imagine most of the money is seeded on Matchbook, which is why they have a different commission structure. Charging on turnover they effectively get paid from being a liquidity provider. I've not idea how much business they are doing, but given the effort they are putting it it's probably a reasonable chunk now.
Thanks for the feedback Peter, sounds like the conference was a huge success. I'm sure you'll have a chance to speak at the next one, it's a very interesting initiative from Matchbook to say the least, hopefully it becomes a regular occurrence as I see it only benefiting everyone involved.
Dallas has a very good point though, which I guess is a bit of an elephant in the room. I understand that the various speakers did not discuss or promote the Matchbook exchange in particular, but I'd imagine most people would like to know whether they can actually trade on Matchbook and whether the rumours that they ban winners are true or not.
Dallas has a very good point though, which I guess is a bit of an elephant in the room. I understand that the various speakers did not discuss or promote the Matchbook exchange in particular, but I'd imagine most people would like to know whether they can actually trade on Matchbook and whether the rumours that they ban winners are true or not.
I actually found the non-trading related talks the most interesting and entertaining. Both Matt Benham and Rasmus Ankersen were excellent. It seems a lot is also in the presentation rather than just the content. The more directly trading related talks were presented a bit dry even though the content was potentially quite interesting.
It is surprising that Peter wasn't asked as a speaker, because he would have a lot of relevance to a lot of people. Perhaps it's because BetAngel software isn't currently available for Matchbook?
Peter, have you ever considered or been approached by Matchbook to write a compatible version? It would seem like an obvious way for them to add liquidity! They definitely do have an API, but for some reason they don't advertise it.
I think their turnover based commission structure is definitely a hindrance, but I have heard of different people getting different commission structures, which I think is where they got this reputation for having "market makers or seeders".
Their lack of transparency is definitely a bit off-putting.
It is surprising that Peter wasn't asked as a speaker, because he would have a lot of relevance to a lot of people. Perhaps it's because BetAngel software isn't currently available for Matchbook?
Peter, have you ever considered or been approached by Matchbook to write a compatible version? It would seem like an obvious way for them to add liquidity! They definitely do have an API, but for some reason they don't advertise it.
I think their turnover based commission structure is definitely a hindrance, but I have heard of different people getting different commission structures, which I think is where they got this reputation for having "market makers or seeders".
Their lack of transparency is definitely a bit off-putting.
We've been approached several times but it isn't something we have considered. It's expensive to produce and maintain software to appropriate standards so to add another vendor to the product just isn't viable.xitian wrote:Peter, have you ever considered or been approached by Matchbook to write a compatible version? It would seem like an obvious way for them to add liquidity! They definitely do have an API, but for some reason they don't advertise it.
If you look at Betdaq as an example, that's cost us a lot of money but people don't really use it. If we added Matchbook we would lose even more money.
I think there is a general 'picks and shovels' myth going on, on the software side. That providing the tools is where the money is. But that's not true based on what I know. There is a lot more money on the trading side of things.
Cheers for the feedback xitian. I agree that the biggest issue is their current commission structure which is not exactly trader-friendly, high frequency traders can easily reach high levels of commission on a single market. I was going to try and do a bit of trading over there but reading the numerous reports of winning traders having their accounts suspended and investigated for no reason is a huge turn-off.
Despite Matchbook organizing this conference and trying to make it a regular thing, I don't think anyone is going to take them seriously, certainly not any of their speakers or traders in general. It's probably one of the reasons why there's no Bet Angel for Matchbook. I see this event as a marketing ploy to get a bit of presence in the exchange industry, because if you invite most of the known traders under the same roof and name the event "Matchbook Traders Conference" then it would certainly appear to the ignorant masses that all of these people do their business on the Matchbook exchange, and/or that Matchbook is a big player and a big name in this industry. I mean, how many of their speakers actually use Matchbook?
I'm sure it was nice for everyone to mingle among the familiar faces and listen to a sports trading version of TED talks, but it would be a lot nicer to have an actual alternative to Betfair.
Despite Matchbook organizing this conference and trying to make it a regular thing, I don't think anyone is going to take them seriously, certainly not any of their speakers or traders in general. It's probably one of the reasons why there's no Bet Angel for Matchbook. I see this event as a marketing ploy to get a bit of presence in the exchange industry, because if you invite most of the known traders under the same roof and name the event "Matchbook Traders Conference" then it would certainly appear to the ignorant masses that all of these people do their business on the Matchbook exchange, and/or that Matchbook is a big player and a big name in this industry. I mean, how many of their speakers actually use Matchbook?
I'm sure it was nice for everyone to mingle among the familiar faces and listen to a sports trading version of TED talks, but it would be a lot nicer to have an actual alternative to Betfair.
I was talking to another traded this morning about the event and he said it was very good.xitian wrote: It is surprising that Peter wasn't asked as a speaker, because he would have a lot of relevance to a lot of people.
I was surprised when I saw the guest speakers that Peter wasnt listed. I dont think there are many traders who havent heard of him and would have really resonated with the audience
Peter - maybe you could do your own Betangel conference! I can thnk of half a dozen names from over the years that would fill a venue! A big hall in Hook would do! D
That's a good enough verdict for me, I won't waste my time then.Euler wrote:Ultimately that's the issue with seeding is the only way to stop somebody from winning is to close the account. Sporting options went bankrupt because of this, people just took them to the cleaners.
I think the conference served it's purpose because people are talking about it. So as a sponsor funded event it's pretty effective. It's something that has been suggested to the other exchanges, but none of them have done a thing about it.
They could have had a better speaker line up, but in most of these events its a case of paying for that privilege.
Another positive is that is shows some momentum and also Betfair are shown up for lack of investment and enthusiasm in the exchange.
They could have had a better speaker line up, but in most of these events its a case of paying for that privilege.
Another positive is that is shows some momentum and also Betfair are shown up for lack of investment and enthusiasm in the exchange.
I don't doubt that. But if I was Matchbook I'd damn well make it worth your time in one way or another. It's fine to have seeders, but an army of independent traders sounds far better to me.Euler wrote:We've been approached several times but it isn't something we have considered. It's expensive to produce and maintain software to appropriate standards so to add another vendor to the product just isn't viable.
What I'd like to see in future is software or brokers which will aggregate liquidity across exchanges and send your order to the most appropriate venue. You get this already on financial exchanges where there are huge numbers of exchanges or MTFs, but brokers will have intelligent routing, or you can specify your routing - e.g. send my orders to the exchange which gives the highest rebates.
We're almost at that stage now, and I have heard of companies offering this aggregation over bookmakers and Betfair (I mentioned this on that other thread about Asian bookmakers). However at the moment it's a bit unregulated. Also Betfair don't allow you to integrate other vendor' APIs with their own one in one piece of software. But fingers crossed this ecosystem will continue to grow and create a competitive market place.
I thought Stratagem was a bit out of place? They seemed to think they had a new idea with trading sports like financial markets. But, of course, that is water well under the bridge. When I was writing for financial mags ten years ago I had that pitch. Felt oddly out of touch for 2015?
Yes. I wondered whether they were trying to appeal to bookmakers who might be holding large positions?
But it's true that Andreas Koukorinis has only been involved with sports trading for a couple years, I think he said? And also kept qualifying everything with a "well I could be wrong but". Didn't fill you with a massive amount of confidence.
I also wasn't sure whether his company trades as well as offering the analytics platform, or just offer the platform and leave the trading up to others. And if they do trade, whether they are profitable!
But it's true that Andreas Koukorinis has only been involved with sports trading for a couple years, I think he said? And also kept qualifying everything with a "well I could be wrong but". Didn't fill you with a massive amount of confidence.
I also wasn't sure whether his company trades as well as offering the analytics platform, or just offer the platform and leave the trading up to others. And if they do trade, whether they are profitable!