10k spoofer/manipulator

[scottydog]

Someone is using 10k stakes constantly trying to move the prices at wolverhampton and dundalk tonight, adding it in and out of the market every few seconds.

I dont see the logic, Everyone she be part of the market, not trying to control it.

One day I am going to blast through your money mate.

Happy trading

[steven1976]

Is control not what trading is about? I would imagine there is a lot more control in the markets than you realise!

Example: If there were only 2 people in a market, player A has 200K bank and the other has 500 pound bank, the guy with 200K just needs to put the other guy in a loosing position long enough for them to fear and sell out or see how the market is playing out before offering back a little. They are not likely going to be willing to offer a winning position to the 500 pound bank, they would prefer to hold that position in a loss as long as possible. Chuck in a bit of commission generating with a slopbot and you have a great edge I would imagine.

[scottydog]

I completely see your logic, Dont get me wrong if i could do it would i?

Probably yes-

I am convinced there are more people taken a open position in the market then traders so there should be no need for it

[Dallas]

If there placing there stakes 2-3 ticks outside the trading price its most likely "the flasher", they ve been around years on and off and dont fool anyone anymore - there only purpose in recent years seems to try and trick WOM bots but people have cottoned onto this a long time ago but it does nt stop them trying every now and again.

These days all they seem to do is give people a headache from the constant flashing prices especially thise who trade the girds

[marko236]

Lets face it most of us try little tricks to try and get an advantage, we just notice the big money ones, it's all part of the game.

[LeTiss]

I have no problem with spoofers. Many of them are just tricking bots into making terrible mistakes, as WOM is one of the major factors people build into an automated strategy

It's all part of the game as far as I'm concerned

[Dallas]

I mostly welcome them myself it just gives more oppertunities especially in stale and boring markets, you only have to observe them for a race or two then just exploit them while they take all the risks

[scottydog]

I mostly welcome them myself it just gives more oppertunities especially in stale and boring markets, you only have to observe them for a race or two then just exploit them while they take all the risks

Any advice on what to look for to exploit it?

[Dallas]

Not going to give away all my info on this but a simple, comon well known one is when someone places a large amount of money which sticks out like a sore thumb just above the trading price while they drip feed there lay orders a few ticks lower using people jumping in front on the back side, once they have had enough of there lays matched the large order holding the price down is removed and the price shoots upwards like a coiled spring.

As you trade naturally day to day you ll start to easily recognize what is not normal market activity then its just a case of working out what the manilpulator/spoofer is trying to do then a way in which you can exploit it.

[scottydog]

Not going to give away all my info on this but a simple, comon well known one is when someone places a large amount of money which sticks out like a sore thumb just above the trading price while they drip feed there lay orders a few ticks lower using people jumping in front on the back side, once they have had enough of there lays matched the large order holding the price down is removed and the price shoots upwards like a coiled spring.

As you trade naturally day to day you ll start to easily recognize what is not normal market activity then its just a case of working out what the manilpulator/spoofer is trying to do then a way in which you can exploit it.

Ahhhh! I see. This was happening tonight.

Looking at the reverse ladder 10k would fill at or one tick above on the back side.

Soon as the money was pulled. The price would move up a few ticks. Not a great deal but maybe 3 or 4 almost everytime

[marko236]

You can only stop the market going where it's ment to go for so long, the power of the people will almost always bring the price back to where it's ment to be.

[Dallas]

I have nt been trading the evening races so did nt see it myself,

If they where holding the price on one side of the book only and once it went never came back that will of been tonights game, the longer the price is held the bigger the spring when released.

On the otherhand if the large orders where appearing on one side of the book then cancelled and a few seconds later placed on the other side and repeated like this back and forth with the price staing within a few ticks range then its the person/s refered to as "the flasher" and the only logic behind there activity seems to be to try and trick bots into firing orders into the market so they can scalp them (hence why he will move his bets either side of the book).

But what ever it was just put what you seen in your bag of tricks and when it happens next time you ll recognize it and know how to exploit it and make a few quid

[steven1976]

Here is a video in a really weak market for football. You can see how by taking just the front 3 positions of the book with 6 pounds can affect the amounts shown on offer. I would imagine the 10ks you see offered are somehow similar. You put money in the market and it will affect the numbers. When I cancel 3 positions, it turns back on the bigger numbers.

https://youtu.be/o5B-yJgRp30

[scottydog]

Here is a video in a really weak market for football. You can see how by taking just the front 3 positions of the book with 6 pounds can affect the amounts shown on offer. I would imagine the 10ks you see offered are somehow similar. You put money in the market and it will affect the numbers. When I cancel 3 positions, it turns back on the bigger numbers.

https://youtu.be/o5B-yJgRp30

I see. I need to work on a strategy for manipulators for sure.

[steven1976]

As stated above in some markets these xmatching bots can be your friend as they follow a similar pattern even in more liquid markets.