When a trend is not a trend

[pragnell]

Hi Peter,

I'm the Commercial Director for Betfair Australia. The team here saw your post http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2015/11 ... d-a-trend/ and I felt compelled to reply.

Your 'trend' is misleading because in the time period you have plotted, the Australian dollar has fallen from a high of 1.48 to 2.14 to the pound. You have to draw your chart in local currency in order to fully appreciate year on year volumes.

Please reach out to me or any of your contacts in our business if you want to know what's really going on here, we'd be happy to chat.

Steve

[Euler]

Hi,

Thanks for getting in touch, it's something your antipodean cousins don't do enough.

I'll be honest I hadn't thought about it in currency terms, as that may have an effect.

[Euler]

One thing that would be of interest to the community is if revenue generated by UK customers on the Australian exchange is counted as Australian revenue or UK revenue.

[pragnell]

Commission on UK customer activity goes to Betfair UK.

[Euler]

Commission on UK customer activity goes to Betfair UK.

Given there are a lot of Uk users who trade Aussie markets isn't that a big injustice to you guys? There a probably a lot of premium charge users who are generating the charge, but you guys are not getting a penny of it.

I'd almost prefer to set up and domicile an account in Australia so the revenue goes to the people who can grow the business there rather than divert funds away from your business.

[The dog of ry]

As an avid viewer of Sky, Racing.com, FTA sports broadcasts and Fox Sports here in Australia, I have noticed a trend. There has been no advertising for Betfair? I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an ad for Betfair.

Just wondering where the advertising has been? I'm happy to be proven wrong, but i'm the epitome of the target market, and you've missed me completely.

[The dog of ry]

Just reading an article on Racenet, which is arguably the premier source of racing news in Australia. There are 13 different Corporate Bookmakers that are advertising on the page. 11 of them have joining incentives.
Betfair are not advertising there.
And it's clearly not a rift between the businesses, as Betfair participate in the weekly "Tips from the big bookies" section.
In the words of Pauline, "Please Explain?"

[PeterLe]

Fair play to Steve Pragnell for getting in touch; I dont think Ive ever seen that in the whole time the forum has been running?

[pragnell]

As an avid viewer of Sky, Racing.com, FTA sports broadcasts and Fox Sports here in Australia, I have noticed a trend. There has been no advertising for Betfair? I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an ad for Betfair.

Just wondering where the advertising has been? I'm happy to be proven wrong, but i'm the epitome of the target market, and you've missed me completely.

The last TV ad you would have seen was the (frankly horrible) 'winners elbow' campaign. When we had a sportsbook it sort of made sense to spend millions on trying to attract young male, losing customers.

Now, as a very focused Exchange only business, the return on those huge above the line campaigns is simply not there. It's not viable for us to 'shout louder' than all the other me-too sports betting adverts on TV.

Where you will see us (I hope) is in well targeted, informative content pieces. For a taster visit https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/.

Steve

[pragnell]

Given there are a lot of Uk users who trade Aussie markets isn't that a big injustice to you guys? There a probably a lot of premium charge users who are generating the charge, but you guys are not getting a penny of it.

The revenue split is equitable. No problems there.

What is more worrying from my perspective is Aussie punter's propensity to lose money overseas. Whether it is via the Exchange to more informed users or increasingly to offshore entities (bookies and/or other exchanges).

My personal mission is to make Australians win (very hard for me to say as an Englishman!). I'm all ears if forum users have any ideas...??

[gazuty]

As an avid viewer of Sky, Racing.com, FTA sports broadcasts and Fox Sports here in Australia, I have noticed a trend. There has been no advertising for Betfair? I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an ad for Betfair.

Just wondering where the advertising has been? I'm happy to be proven wrong, but i'm the epitome of the target market, and you've missed me completely.

The last TV ad you would have seen was the (frankly horrible) 'winners elbow' campaign. When we had a sportsbook it sort of made sense to spend millions on trying to attract young male, losing customers.

Now, as a very focused Exchange only business, the return on those huge above the line campaigns is simply not there. It's not viable for us to 'shout louder' than all the other me-too sports betting adverts on TV.

Where you will see us (I hope) is in well targeted, informative content pieces. For a taster visit https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/.

Steve

Yep, I've noticed a change towards a different type of market.

Even notice BF in Australia actively marketing "how to" arb corporate bookies. (Although not relevant once one has to pay pc - ).

Incidentally - milking corporate bookies is how I built my initial bank and got my start. For other newbies out there, it is quite easy to bonus bag a couple of grand to get one's initial bank. Then once that bank is there, experiment away knowing it is free money. And, you can continue to win off the corporates for a while - although eventually, one gets banned if the corporates pick through what you are doing - which frankly isn't hard to spot.

I agree that the main sports betting market is advertising to non-price aware mug punters in the 20 - 40 male market - who largely jump on their mobile with in the five minutes before the start (or overreact to other "news"), don't check prices, don't care about value and probably otherwise inebriated and click away.

[blueport]

I like what Betfair Oz is doing with the Promo Arber. Even though, like gazuty I am not in a position to take advanatge of it. It was also good to see the shortcomings of the TABs cash out feature highlighted.

Commission on UK customer activity goes to Betfair UK.

Does that structure work in the opposite direction?

My personal mission is to make Australians win (very hard for me to say as an Englishman!). I'm all ears if forum users have any ideas...??

Are we tied to Betfair UK through the PC structure? A fairer model would attract more turnover in my opinion. We are already paying reasonably high base commission anyway.

[seany30]

Hey Blueport and Gazuty,

My name's Sean, I am an analyst at Betfair and report directly into Steve. Currently doing a lot of work around PC and I'd love to hear your feedback around the charge. feel free to Direct Message me and we can exchange emails.

Cheers,
Sean

[seany30]

Commission on UK customer activity goes to Betfair UK.

Does that structure work in the opposite direction?

Yes it does. Commission on ANZ customer activity flows to the Betfair ANZ.

Are we tied to Betfair UK through the PC structure? A fairer model would attract more turnover in my opinion. We are already paying reasonably high base commission anyway.

I am currently doing some work around PC for Steve, would be happy to have a chat around the fee with you!

[pragnell]

Does that structure work in the opposite direction?

Are we tied to Betfair UK through the PC structure? A fairer model would attract more turnover in my opinion. We are already paying reasonably high base commission anyway.

The comm structure is more or less the same both ways. There are slight differences due to the UK owning the core platform.

We aren't tied to the UK pricing structure, however some things are easier to change than others.

Steve