Hi Everyone
Just had a disscusion down the pub and now need to prove a point. have been trading on betfair for a couple of weeks at low stakes with a bank of £50 lost 80 % of that money but i know how and why i have lost it and was prepared to loose it to learn. Now feel i am in a position to profit. The problem i have is that when i talk to mates about what i am doing they just seem to say that if it involves horses and gambling i will always lose. However i have become detatched from the horses and all i see is a ladder, money layed and bet and a profit. Am i doing something wrong? No one else can see it so i have been challenged by a "financial advisor" to turn £50 into a return of more than 6% in a week ie have a bank of £53 by next sunday. Personally i think that is easy. Please tell me where my pitfalls might be because i cant see them ..... is it me or is this easy???????
Is It Me?
Wayneindevon,
Let me brutally frank about the problem you have - you care about what your mates down at the pub think - if you are going to be a successful trader then I think it is essential that you do it alone - no chats with mates at pubs - no trying to convince relatives that you have discovered a new and exciting method of exploiting the betting markets - just do it without all that - there is ample support from fellow traders on this forum - they have all been (or are still going) through the learning cycle and accordingly, understand what we are each trying to achieve.
You will frequently read on trading forums that trading is a lonely and isolated business - and it has to necessarily be so - except for the support and camaraderie you will find on the forum.
You need to develop the quiet confidence that allows you to succeed on your own - by yourself - without those discussions at the pub - which (although I am not a qualified psychologist) suggests that you are seeking reinforecement and validation for what you are doing.
Good luck with the journey - you will find loads of support on here.
Galilee66
Let me brutally frank about the problem you have - you care about what your mates down at the pub think - if you are going to be a successful trader then I think it is essential that you do it alone - no chats with mates at pubs - no trying to convince relatives that you have discovered a new and exciting method of exploiting the betting markets - just do it without all that - there is ample support from fellow traders on this forum - they have all been (or are still going) through the learning cycle and accordingly, understand what we are each trying to achieve.
You will frequently read on trading forums that trading is a lonely and isolated business - and it has to necessarily be so - except for the support and camaraderie you will find on the forum.
You need to develop the quiet confidence that allows you to succeed on your own - by yourself - without those discussions at the pub - which (although I am not a qualified psychologist) suggests that you are seeking reinforecement and validation for what you are doing.
Good luck with the journey - you will find loads of support on here.
Galilee66
Hi wayneindevon
Mug is correct that successful traders on will be able to turn £50 to £53 in one race.
However just to play devils advocate you said:
"trading on betfair for a couple of weeks at low stakes with a bank of £50 lost 80 % of that money"
If you are a beginning trader and do not approach it in a professional manor then you MAY end up lossing at lot more than that!
Some people will learn to be trading gurus very quickly - and you may be one of them - unfortunately for me I am not one of those. I am from the school that trading is a skill that has to be learnt over years but thats not to say you can not be profitable in the short term.
I have lost thousands spread betting and on Betfair over seven years - so I am probably the only person in the country who has done so - however in order to balance the equation that "everybody seems to be making money hand over fist at this game" alas that is my story.
Trading should be treated as a business - go on a course (eg BetAngel course or get a trading mentor), study study study...
As I have stated in the past I am NOT a successful trader - I will let others do that however this is what I am doing if you are interested.
I started over a week ago cleared the slate once again with my last £96. Here's my aim:
£2 stakes looking to make 1 tick per race for a month;
I only trade for 2.5 hours eg 14:00 to 16:30 about 15 16 races.
I am allowed to increase my stakes up to £5 so long as I am in profit.
you will learn alot about yourself in that challenge -for example can you do excellent money management, can you spot trading opportunities - its not about the money (profit) - its about learning how to trade.
It may seem tedious but it may save you more money in the longer term.
Mug is correct that successful traders on will be able to turn £50 to £53 in one race.
However just to play devils advocate you said:
"trading on betfair for a couple of weeks at low stakes with a bank of £50 lost 80 % of that money"
If you are a beginning trader and do not approach it in a professional manor then you MAY end up lossing at lot more than that!
Some people will learn to be trading gurus very quickly - and you may be one of them - unfortunately for me I am not one of those. I am from the school that trading is a skill that has to be learnt over years but thats not to say you can not be profitable in the short term.
I have lost thousands spread betting and on Betfair over seven years - so I am probably the only person in the country who has done so - however in order to balance the equation that "everybody seems to be making money hand over fist at this game" alas that is my story.
Trading should be treated as a business - go on a course (eg BetAngel course or get a trading mentor), study study study...
As I have stated in the past I am NOT a successful trader - I will let others do that however this is what I am doing if you are interested.
I started over a week ago cleared the slate once again with my last £96. Here's my aim:
£2 stakes looking to make 1 tick per race for a month;
I only trade for 2.5 hours eg 14:00 to 16:30 about 15 16 races.
I am allowed to increase my stakes up to £5 so long as I am in profit.
you will learn alot about yourself in that challenge -for example can you do excellent money management, can you spot trading opportunities - its not about the money (profit) - its about learning how to trade.
It may seem tedious but it may save you more money in the longer term.
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wayneindevon
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:36 pm
Thanks everyone for all the advice..... So the challenge begins!!! I have made the decision to take this all a little bit more seriously and have topped my account up to the £50 i will start with. Heres the plan. Small stakes looking to green out with a profit before the off. Dont get greedy. Try very hard not to let anything go in play and above all realise that a small loss taken is better than hoping for the big win. If your interested i will post my results for today on here later.
one further question...Mentoring..How does it work and how can i get a mentor? any help would be appreciated..oh and thank you galilee66 for your post it made me realise a few things one of which was the fact that i was looking for validation as i was always told that if something seems to good to be true it probably is. but having got my head round trading, rather than betting, i have had what i believe is called a "light bulb" moment and things have fallen into place......wish me luck ....good luck (trading) to ALL !!!!
one further question...Mentoring..How does it work and how can i get a mentor? any help would be appreciated..oh and thank you galilee66 for your post it made me realise a few things one of which was the fact that i was looking for validation as i was always told that if something seems to good to be true it probably is. but having got my head round trading, rather than betting, i have had what i believe is called a "light bulb" moment and things have fallen into place......wish me luck ....good luck (trading) to ALL !!!!
Hi Wayneindevon,
Best of luck (and we all need a little bit)with your trading adventure - I feel pretty sure that with the attitude you have expressed you will make a go of it. BTW - read the advice that Letiss
provided to another newbie about not letting an obsession with money get in the way of being a good trader. I think it is excellent advice - I liken it to the skilled craftsman - say a cabinet maker - who gains his pleasure and professional pride from completing the best cabinet or joinery work that he can - of course he will be paid for doing it - but the reason he does - and does it so well - is that he loves what he is doing and takes pride in approximating perfection in the doing of it.
Best wishes.
Galilee66
Best of luck (and we all need a little bit)with your trading adventure - I feel pretty sure that with the attitude you have expressed you will make a go of it. BTW - read the advice that Letiss
provided to another newbie about not letting an obsession with money get in the way of being a good trader. I think it is excellent advice - I liken it to the skilled craftsman - say a cabinet maker - who gains his pleasure and professional pride from completing the best cabinet or joinery work that he can - of course he will be paid for doing it - but the reason he does - and does it so well - is that he loves what he is doing and takes pride in approximating perfection in the doing of it.
Best wishes.
Galilee66
Hi wayneindevon,
I was hoping some advice would come in about trading mentors from the forum - as I can not help you there.
The obvious one is the BetAngel Academy - you can go on a course or they can send you out a mentor to do one on one. Note I have not been on the course so I can not help you there (I can no longer afford it) and I am not affiliated in any way to BetAngel (- just in case you think I'm on commisson
).
I do not know if any of the professional traders have branched out into offering their services for training purposes - but obviously be careful as they may not have the correct credentials - ie more interested in taking your money that actually teaching you anything.
I doubt if anyone will be offering their services for free.
Personally I would try trading on your own for a few months then you will know what questions to be asking and will get more out of the course/mentor.
And of course you may actually find you are a good trader and may not need anybodys services.
Obviously the BetAngelTV on YouTube is a great free service - I really enjoy watching Peter trade.
I was hoping some advice would come in about trading mentors from the forum - as I can not help you there.
The obvious one is the BetAngel Academy - you can go on a course or they can send you out a mentor to do one on one. Note I have not been on the course so I can not help you there (I can no longer afford it) and I am not affiliated in any way to BetAngel (- just in case you think I'm on commisson
).I do not know if any of the professional traders have branched out into offering their services for training purposes - but obviously be careful as they may not have the correct credentials - ie more interested in taking your money that actually teaching you anything.
I doubt if anyone will be offering their services for free.
Personally I would try trading on your own for a few months then you will know what questions to be asking and will get more out of the course/mentor.
And of course you may actually find you are a good trader and may not need anybodys services.
Obviously the BetAngelTV on YouTube is a great free service - I really enjoy watching Peter trade.
I have two areas of hope for all starters.
(1) I was rubbish at trading short term on the stock market, I was not a natural trader.
(2) I knew nothing about horses when I started.
So when I started I just had to assume that I could do no better than random and had to assume no specialist knowledge.
I found that when I was trading at random I didn't lose that much, but lose I did. So I realised that the line between success and failure was actually quite thin, which I had expected given the nature of the markets. I also realised that in percentage terms the line was even thinner, so I knew I only needed to do a few things roughly right, most of the time to turn it positive. I then worked to start cutting out obvious errors and started building out from there.
(1) I was rubbish at trading short term on the stock market, I was not a natural trader.
(2) I knew nothing about horses when I started.
So when I started I just had to assume that I could do no better than random and had to assume no specialist knowledge.
I found that when I was trading at random I didn't lose that much, but lose I did. So I realised that the line between success and failure was actually quite thin, which I had expected given the nature of the markets. I also realised that in percentage terms the line was even thinner, so I knew I only needed to do a few things roughly right, most of the time to turn it positive. I then worked to start cutting out obvious errors and started building out from there.
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evertonian
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:34 am
Peter -Do you trade now using your knowledge of horses / races / trainers etc ? If so, how much of this do you take into account while trading, or do you still concentrate on what you have learnt through trading ? Would be extremely grateful as I'm sure all traders would be into how you go about preparing for a day's trading and then actual trading.
Thanks
Thanks
I tend to use my knowledge or racing now to broadly asses the day and it's characteristics as well as the likely characteristics of a market. But when I arrive at that market is pure trading from then on in. Using broader knowledge it's possibly to indentify the broader nature of the market but I don't tend to use it for specific trades.
I know you went on the course a while ago and that the content has probably changed quite a bit since then, so you are welcome to get in contact if you want me to elaborate a bit.
I know you went on the course a while ago and that the content has probably changed quite a bit since then, so you are welcome to get in contact if you want me to elaborate a bit.
