Going Full-Time Professional on Betfair
I've been using BetAngel for several years now, watched all of Pete's videos and attended his trading course. I've won and I've lost but my circumstances are that around the middle of next year I am thinking on going full-time professional. This would be exclusively trading on horse racing. I was wondering if there are any full-time professionals on the forum or if any forumers know of full-time pros and could you share any experience. I reckon I need at least a £3,000 bank, basically to cover possible multi-sniping on the winner at odds of between 1.15 and 1.05. I would be aiming to make a minimum of £400/day. Obviously Pete is the consummate professional and would love to mirror his confidence and earnings.
What have your results been like to date and have these been consistent profits for a sustained period of time?
If not you cant just decide overnight that you are now going to do this for a living, if you have been making consistent profits but with much smaller stakes and your intention is to increase these stakes to allow you to make a living i would suggest doing this gradually over a period of time - a sudden change in stakes size and the added pressure of it being your sole source of income will definitely effect you mentally to begin with.
You should only consider doing this full time when both of the following things are covered:
A) You have already been making consistent profits over a period of time that are enough to support you and sustain your current lifestyle.
B) Have enough cash put by not just fund your starting bank but to cover all your living expenses for the first 3-6 months so your not dependent on your results
Also you should not be thinking of daily targets some days there is more opportunities than others - you should be looking at the month/quarter and if you have satisfied "A" above this should nt be a problem
Im not trying to be negative just want to make sure you give yourself the best possible chance of success.
If not you cant just decide overnight that you are now going to do this for a living, if you have been making consistent profits but with much smaller stakes and your intention is to increase these stakes to allow you to make a living i would suggest doing this gradually over a period of time - a sudden change in stakes size and the added pressure of it being your sole source of income will definitely effect you mentally to begin with.
You should only consider doing this full time when both of the following things are covered:
A) You have already been making consistent profits over a period of time that are enough to support you and sustain your current lifestyle.
B) Have enough cash put by not just fund your starting bank but to cover all your living expenses for the first 3-6 months so your not dependent on your results
Also you should not be thinking of daily targets some days there is more opportunities than others - you should be looking at the month/quarter and if you have satisfied "A" above this should nt be a problem
Im not trying to be negative just want to make sure you give yourself the best possible chance of success.
£3000 is not enough to have as self-employment, especially if you want £400 per day
I went self-employed as a trader in June 2008 after being made redundant. However, I'd traded extensively on BF at weekends and in the evenings for 5 years, so I knew my limitations and knew what markets brought me success.
I looked at it like this. I decided to give myself 6 months to see if it worked. When this is your only income, you can't afford a bad month with no savings, as you use your BF bank to cover everyday expenses. At this point you're already fucked, as your target earnings will disappear due to a diminishing bank
My monthly expenses (including socialising) meant I needed to take home £1500 each month. I wanted that 6 month buffer, so that I wasn't sweating my bollocks on day 1 - therefore I put £9000 into my Current Account to cover that 6 months.
To earn £1500 each month equated to an average of £50*30 days. I found making 1% of my bank each day was a good achievable target, as I could easily make up a disappointing day. So, I needed £5000 in BF to make my £50
Basically, I needed £14000 to be self-employed. I've had some ups & downs, but 7 years later I'm still here
I went self-employed as a trader in June 2008 after being made redundant. However, I'd traded extensively on BF at weekends and in the evenings for 5 years, so I knew my limitations and knew what markets brought me success.
I looked at it like this. I decided to give myself 6 months to see if it worked. When this is your only income, you can't afford a bad month with no savings, as you use your BF bank to cover everyday expenses. At this point you're already fucked, as your target earnings will disappear due to a diminishing bank
My monthly expenses (including socialising) meant I needed to take home £1500 each month. I wanted that 6 month buffer, so that I wasn't sweating my bollocks on day 1 - therefore I put £9000 into my Current Account to cover that 6 months.
To earn £1500 each month equated to an average of £50*30 days. I found making 1% of my bank each day was a good achievable target, as I could easily make up a disappointing day. So, I needed £5000 in BF to make my £50
Basically, I needed £14000 to be self-employed. I've had some ups & downs, but 7 years later I'm still here
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CLOWNSHOES
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:04 pm
I'm no Peter Webb but BF became my primary source of income pretty quick. I agree with Dallas that setting targets will definitely alter your trading. Remain within your comfort zone and enjoy what you're doing ... the money will follow. With regards to wanting to be like Peter .... Winners focus on winning losers focus on winners. So many people see big greens and bust themselves shooting for similar profits too quickly. Best of luck mate !
trading every day and earning consistent profits build up self-confidence in what you're doing. At a certain level you would know for sure when to go full time. So the answer lies in your head. As long as you are not fully confident don't do it. Trading with a back-up job is much more relaxed then without it especially first few months.
At the moment i work fulltime but at the end of january i'm cutting back to part time so i can spend more time trading, at the moment i can't make enough money trading to even to cover living expenses but i have got savings that will give me four months to see where i can take my trading.
Anyone wanting to do this has to look at the risks, the only risk i have is losing some savings and the possibility of going back to work full time
Anyone wanting to do this has to look at the risks, the only risk i have is losing some savings and the possibility of going back to work full time
If you are currently making £400 per day as you plan to make in the future, then go for it, that is an incredible living that you would do very well to match in any job.
If you are not currently making that, then dont assume that you will just because you are going 'full time'.
Also, as Dallas pointed out, if you are currently profitable, say making £100 per day, dont assume that you can just multiply your stake by 4 and start making £400 per day,its not as simple as that.
But if you are confident of making that, then go for it I would say.Even paying the highest level of premium charge, which you will be in less than two years at that rate, its still a decent living.
If you are not currently making that, then dont assume that you will just because you are going 'full time'.
Also, as Dallas pointed out, if you are currently profitable, say making £100 per day, dont assume that you can just multiply your stake by 4 and start making £400 per day,its not as simple as that.
But if you are confident of making that, then go for it I would say.Even paying the highest level of premium charge, which you will be in less than two years at that rate, its still a decent living.
If you wanting £400/day (£12k/Month), then i assume you are already paying PC?
So to take home £400/Day, you have to win considerably more!
It's thought that only the top 1% are profitable long term and I expect that its probably nearer to the top 0.1% that earn >£12k Month?
Good Luck either way
Regards
Peter
So to take home £400/Day, you have to win considerably more!
It's thought that only the top 1% are profitable long term and I expect that its probably nearer to the top 0.1% that earn >£12k Month?
Good Luck either way
Regards
Peter
Thanks, guys, your words are greatly appreciated. Yes, £400/day would be my objective and this is loosely based on my current standard of living although in my current job I am making as a limited company £560/day. However, the project I am working on terminates around July next year. I have plenty of money available and I could easily put £20,000 into my account. But I read an article on-line about a Betfair trader who makes £500/day with a betting bank of £5,000. I will be using daily a philosophy of win small amounts but often; by that I mean around £25 - £30 per race. You can do your own maths. I think I have been using BA Pro long enough to use the various tools: ladder, dutching, sniping, laying the field, etc depending on race type and length. I also feel that it is in your favour to study trends in racing because there are trends in racing.
I started using BetAngel in 2006 and believe me it took well over a year to really get the hang of it. My first year was a losing year. But it wasn't until I started using BA Pro that things opened up. So, we shall see how things pan out before the summer. Shall post any developments nearer the time.
In the meantime, a Happy and Prosperous New Year to all BetAngel forumers!!
I started using BetAngel in 2006 and believe me it took well over a year to really get the hang of it. My first year was a losing year. But it wasn't until I started using BA Pro that things opened up. So, we shall see how things pan out before the summer. Shall post any developments nearer the time.
In the meantime, a Happy and Prosperous New Year to all BetAngel forumers!!
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Grinderman
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:44 pm
I personally don't think that your bank is anywhere near big enough for what you would like to make.
Myself, I have 2 different strategies. On a bog standard day like today, I use about £2k - £3k and I am happy with £50 return - although I never set a target.
Saturdays and big festivals, I use £20k and 'par' is about £500.
As Oscar posted though, you can't assume multiplying a bank increases profits by a similar factor. My Saturday method would not work on days like today - there is not the volume at the time I need it.
I also have a reserve 'emergency' £5k bank to use on Betdaq to limit losses when Betfair crashes.
In my honest opinion, I think that if you try and make £400 a day from £3k, you will end up gambling rather than trading.
Myself, I have 2 different strategies. On a bog standard day like today, I use about £2k - £3k and I am happy with £50 return - although I never set a target.
Saturdays and big festivals, I use £20k and 'par' is about £500.
As Oscar posted though, you can't assume multiplying a bank increases profits by a similar factor. My Saturday method would not work on days like today - there is not the volume at the time I need it.
I also have a reserve 'emergency' £5k bank to use on Betdaq to limit losses when Betfair crashes.
In my honest opinion, I think that if you try and make £400 a day from £3k, you will end up gambling rather than trading.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
My advice - carry on doing whatever it is you are doing and don't waste your time trying to trade.
If you can bring home £560/day in your current job you must be very good at whatever you do to be on around £200,000 a year gross.
You will have to be one of the very best on Betfair to get anywhere near that amount and likely you will pay the higher PC in doing so so you will need to earn considerably more.
Good luck and I look forward to eating humble pie but I will be amazed if you get anywhere near those levels.
I have made a note to look back at this thread in year... best of luck I hope you achieve it.
If you can bring home £560/day in your current job you must be very good at whatever you do to be on around £200,000 a year gross.
You will have to be one of the very best on Betfair to get anywhere near that amount and likely you will pay the higher PC in doing so so you will need to earn considerably more.
Good luck and I look forward to eating humble pie but I will be amazed if you get anywhere near those levels.
I have made a note to look back at this thread in year... best of luck I hope you achieve it.
Thanks, Grinderman. I know where you are coming from and believe me I do take every day as it comes and am obviously aware of the differences in weekday trading as opposed to Saturdays, for instance.
I am also equally aware between the concepts of trading and gambling. My wife is a trader and concentrates on intraday futures. When I look at her graphs they are basically identical to the various graphs on BetAngel. The other day she had an excellent trade and I was beside her. She said, 'Whao, that was a gamble!' But it was a trade. To be honest I try not to get too hung up on concepts.
Anyway, as I said in my post, it shall be the summer before this happens, or does not happen - who predicted this awful weather six months ago!
All the best in your trading.
I am also equally aware between the concepts of trading and gambling. My wife is a trader and concentrates on intraday futures. When I look at her graphs they are basically identical to the various graphs on BetAngel. The other day she had an excellent trade and I was beside her. She said, 'Whao, that was a gamble!' But it was a trade. To be honest I try not to get too hung up on concepts.
Anyway, as I said in my post, it shall be the summer before this happens, or does not happen - who predicted this awful weather six months ago!
All the best in your trading.
I'd say something very similar to Andy Fuller above.
Of most that try, the vast majority don't make anything near what you are hoping for (however smart or determined you may be.) Not that it's impossible of course, but if you are fully serious (which it sounds like) then I'd say the best thing to do is to practice in your days off / evening until the point where you can consistently make what you want to leave your job.
Good luck anyway
Of most that try, the vast majority don't make anything near what you are hoping for (however smart or determined you may be.) Not that it's impossible of course, but if you are fully serious (which it sounds like) then I'd say the best thing to do is to practice in your days off / evening until the point where you can consistently make what you want to leave your job.
Good luck anyway