So i used bookmaking on the Liverpool v Atl as the lay market was between 115-120% all day.
Profit said between 60 - 130 quid depending on the player, aquilani scores and.... £17 net loss.
where the hell did it go wrong?Not Receiving the Stated Profit on Betfair
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Orinoco123
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:40 pm
OK well i was gonna put this in support but its probably me missing the point somewhere.
So i used bookmaking on the Liverpool v Atl as the lay market was between 115-120% all day.
Profit said between 60 - 130 quid depending on the player, aquilani scores and.... £17 net loss. where the hell did it go wrong?
So i used bookmaking on the Liverpool v Atl as the lay market was between 115-120% all day.
Profit said between 60 - 130 quid depending on the player, aquilani scores and.... £17 net loss.
where the hell did it go wrong?
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Orinoco123
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:40 pm
haha yes i was, although i found out how important double checking that is the hard way.
But yes all bets were made in the first goalscorer section and all profit outcomes were positive.
But yes all bets were made in the first goalscorer section and all profit outcomes were positive.
You are not the first to get caught out. While a lay above 100% is tempting there is usually a catch why it is above 100%, not always but very often.Bets will be voided on any player who takes no part in the match or who comes on as substitute after the first goal has been scored. Own goals do not count for First Goalscorer purposes and are ignored. Subsequent appeals or rulings will not be considered.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
from racing post
Betfair suspends scorer markets
by Bruce Millington, racing post, 28/02/07
THEY thought they couldn't lose. They thought they had spotted the ultimate infallible betting opportunity. They were wrong.
A group of inexperienced punters, acting on a tip-off posted on a website that aims to help users save money, were dealt a harsh lesson that there is no such thing as a free lunch after trying to land a coup on Betfair's Carling Cup final first scorer market on Sunday.
As a result of this amazing episode, Betfair, which had to swallow a loss running into tens of thousands of pounds, has pulled the plug on first-scorer markets until further notice.
The fun and games began on Sunday when users of the consumer website www.moneysavingexpert.com were alerted to the fact that the lay percentage on Betfair's first scorer market totalled 140 and that it was therefore possibleto guarantee a profit by laying every runner.
This was, of course, flawed advice. The market listed a larger than usual number of players due to uncertainty over the managers' team selections, especially that of Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger.
And withbets on non-starters and those who come on after the first goal has been scored being voided, the actual lay percentage was nowhere near 100.
More importantly, and unbeknown to MSE users who were laying away to their hearts' content in the belief that they were effectively picking up money off the pavement, it would end up, once the withdrawals had been made, well below 100.
Having been under the impression they were all green (in profit) on every runner, they suddenly saw those green figures turnto red and the penny began to drop that their wonderfully easy scheme to boost their wealth was doomed.
One user who had laid constantly until the lay percentage was virtually down to 100, said he was £12,000 in the red once Theo Walcott had opened the scoring for the Gunners.
However, while the get-rich-quick 'investors' lost everything they had put into their accounts, they were spared further pain as Betfair opted not to pursue them for the amount they had lost as a consequence of their ill-advised trading.
The exchange's Tony Calvin said: "This is not a simple matter but the bottom line is that nobody will lose any money they don't have in their account.
"This incident highlights an anomaly in one aspect of our trading model and as a result we have withdrawn first-scorer markets for the time being while we review and discuss the situation."
Theoretically, the issue of negative balances could still arise – if Roger Federer withdrew from a tennis tournament when an extremelyshort favourite, for example – because, unlike in racing, there is no Rule 4 mechanism in place to even up the betting percentages when there are non-runners.
There was a similar situation last July when Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich, the dominant figures in the Tour de France market, were expelled from the race the day before the opening stage, but the lack of liquidity prevented the panic that was witnessed on Sunday when the Betfair novices realised things had gone belly-up.
But Calvin says Betfair has various potential remedies.
"We have a major rules and regulations meeting very soon and this issue will be on the agenda," he added.
"We want our customers to have a fair betting experience, and we see it as part of our job to educate people who may fall foul of a situation which is not their fault.
"We have contacted the people whose accounts went into negative territory as a result of this market and explained what happened.
"We are still a relatively young company and this is just part of our development process. It was similar in the 1990s when the spread industry had to make various alterations to their rules as a result of certain incidents."
One possibility being discussed is to offer first scorerbetting only when the teamsheets have been announced.
So Betfair lost this one, the chancers got off lightly and those backers who spotted the value on offer had a day to remember.
Betfair suspends scorer markets
by Bruce Millington, racing post, 28/02/07
THEY thought they couldn't lose. They thought they had spotted the ultimate infallible betting opportunity. They were wrong.
A group of inexperienced punters, acting on a tip-off posted on a website that aims to help users save money, were dealt a harsh lesson that there is no such thing as a free lunch after trying to land a coup on Betfair's Carling Cup final first scorer market on Sunday.
As a result of this amazing episode, Betfair, which had to swallow a loss running into tens of thousands of pounds, has pulled the plug on first-scorer markets until further notice.
The fun and games began on Sunday when users of the consumer website www.moneysavingexpert.com were alerted to the fact that the lay percentage on Betfair's first scorer market totalled 140 and that it was therefore possibleto guarantee a profit by laying every runner.
This was, of course, flawed advice. The market listed a larger than usual number of players due to uncertainty over the managers' team selections, especially that of Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger.
And withbets on non-starters and those who come on after the first goal has been scored being voided, the actual lay percentage was nowhere near 100.
More importantly, and unbeknown to MSE users who were laying away to their hearts' content in the belief that they were effectively picking up money off the pavement, it would end up, once the withdrawals had been made, well below 100.
Having been under the impression they were all green (in profit) on every runner, they suddenly saw those green figures turnto red and the penny began to drop that their wonderfully easy scheme to boost their wealth was doomed.
One user who had laid constantly until the lay percentage was virtually down to 100, said he was £12,000 in the red once Theo Walcott had opened the scoring for the Gunners.
However, while the get-rich-quick 'investors' lost everything they had put into their accounts, they were spared further pain as Betfair opted not to pursue them for the amount they had lost as a consequence of their ill-advised trading.
The exchange's Tony Calvin said: "This is not a simple matter but the bottom line is that nobody will lose any money they don't have in their account.
"This incident highlights an anomaly in one aspect of our trading model and as a result we have withdrawn first-scorer markets for the time being while we review and discuss the situation."
Theoretically, the issue of negative balances could still arise – if Roger Federer withdrew from a tennis tournament when an extremelyshort favourite, for example – because, unlike in racing, there is no Rule 4 mechanism in place to even up the betting percentages when there are non-runners.
There was a similar situation last July when Ivan Basso and Jan Ullrich, the dominant figures in the Tour de France market, were expelled from the race the day before the opening stage, but the lack of liquidity prevented the panic that was witnessed on Sunday when the Betfair novices realised things had gone belly-up.
But Calvin says Betfair has various potential remedies.
"We have a major rules and regulations meeting very soon and this issue will be on the agenda," he added.
"We want our customers to have a fair betting experience, and we see it as part of our job to educate people who may fall foul of a situation which is not their fault.
"We have contacted the people whose accounts went into negative territory as a result of this market and explained what happened.
"We are still a relatively young company and this is just part of our development process. It was similar in the 1990s when the spread industry had to make various alterations to their rules as a result of certain incidents."
One possibility being discussed is to offer first scorerbetting only when the teamsheets have been announced.
So Betfair lost this one, the chancers got off lightly and those backers who spotted the value on offer had a day to remember.
I seem to remember reading something a couple of years ago where did someone did something similar on the grand national dutching (I think they have four stand by horses??)...anyway even though this particular person only had a relatively small amount in their account, over a course of a few days they ran up a massive red when the four stand by horses were withdrew.
I dont know what ever happened in that particular case...I dont think it was made public??
regards
Peter
I dont know what ever happened in that particular case...I dont think it was made public??
regards
Peter
When I first started playing with exchanges I got caught out by the same thing
It's one of the reasons why I don't really dabble with bookmaking or dutching on Ante-Post footy markets, or players to win tournaments outright.
When Betfair revise the markets, they withdraw selections that have been eliminated. This temporarily has strange implications on how your P/L looks, and for a period of time can reduce the bank balance, even though you'd greened up at the time.
It's one of the reasons why I don't really dabble with bookmaking or dutching on Ante-Post footy markets, or players to win tournaments outright.
When Betfair revise the markets, they withdraw selections that have been eliminated. This temporarily has strange implications on how your P/L looks, and for a period of time can reduce the bank balance, even though you'd greened up at the time.