I have set up an automation rule around dutching where I want to close a trade out at the best price if it isn't matched. To give an example, one of my trades is for £2 at 15. It isn't matched. After, say, a minute on in play, it still isn't matched and the price is at say 10. What rule do i use to tell Guardian to place that £2 at the best market price (or even 2 or 3 points under best so that it hits after the 1 sec delay)? Note that I don't want to use £3 or green as it will then afect the dutching position on the other trades but it will reduce any potential loss I have on this horse. Any guidance would be helpful
thanks
Dutching and closing trades
You could try doing it this way
Rule type
"Close trade on Selection"
Arm 1 min after event goes in play
Applies to ANY selection
Conditions
"Matched bets amount Condition"
Back Bets greater than following fixed amount of £1
"Matched bets amount Condition"
Lay Bets equal to following fixed amount £0
Rule type
"Close trade on Selection"
Arm 1 min after event goes in play
Applies to ANY selection
Conditions
"Matched bets amount Condition"
Back Bets greater than following fixed amount of £1
"Matched bets amount Condition"
Lay Bets equal to following fixed amount £0
Nope that didn't work so I tried simply asking it to close positon on any selection (and rearming it 4 times) but again, that didn't work. Maybe this is something for Peter to answer.
Peter, there is a Close button for unmatched bets on the standard One click screen. I simply want to automate that for any unmatched bets 1 minute after the off. How do I automate this?
Peter, there is a Close button for unmatched bets on the standard One click screen. I simply want to automate that for any unmatched bets 1 minute after the off. How do I automate this?
Peter
I have set up a dutching automation - backing several horses prior to the off. The back bets kick in fine. I then change persistence to keep just before the event start time, again, that kicks in fine.
I have then set up a "close" rule. On the general sheet, I have chosen the rule type "Close trade on Selection", 1 minute after event in play and chosen the "Any Selction" option from the drop down list at the bottom of the page. No parameters (as none are offered) and the only condition is that the event is in play.
What happens is that, even if the Back bet has been successfully matched, at the 1 minute post-off time, BetAngel submits a Lay bet for the same amount on Horse 1. So, in order:
- a back bet for £15 at say 2.50 on horse 1 is placed at 1 minute prior to the off,
- matched at some point from that point and the 1 minute post-in play point,
- then 1 minute post in play, a Lay bet is submitted on horse 1 for £15 and immediately matched at the best price available when it hits.
(- no other ay bets are triggered on other horses and no other close bets are made on any unmatched bets either)
This oviously screws up my position completely !!
I hope that's clear for you
I have set up a dutching automation - backing several horses prior to the off. The back bets kick in fine. I then change persistence to keep just before the event start time, again, that kicks in fine.
I have then set up a "close" rule. On the general sheet, I have chosen the rule type "Close trade on Selection", 1 minute after event in play and chosen the "Any Selction" option from the drop down list at the bottom of the page. No parameters (as none are offered) and the only condition is that the event is in play.
What happens is that, even if the Back bet has been successfully matched, at the 1 minute post-off time, BetAngel submits a Lay bet for the same amount on Horse 1. So, in order:
- a back bet for £15 at say 2.50 on horse 1 is placed at 1 minute prior to the off,
- matched at some point from that point and the 1 minute post-in play point,
- then 1 minute post in play, a Lay bet is submitted on horse 1 for £15 and immediately matched at the best price available when it hits.
(- no other ay bets are triggered on other horses and no other close bets are made on any unmatched bets either)
This oviously screws up my position completely !!
I hope that's clear for you
You missed out the two conditions from my original reply
So you have "Close trade on selection"
ANY selection after 1min
..................................................
Conditions
"Matched bets amount Condition"
Back Bets greater than following fixed amount of £1
"Matched bets amount Condition"
Lay Bets equal to following fixed amount £0
These are needed to control the close trade lay bets
The first condition (although mainly a failsafe) only ensure a close trade can be placed if a selection has more than a £1 back bet ie you have dutched that runner.
the 2nd part ensures that the additional lays are not placed on the same selection ie it can only close with a lay if £0 has already been layed - once layed it cant trigger no more on this selection.
You need to ensure the number of triggers is more than the numbers of runners your dutching and re-arm them every 2 secs - Once a selection has been matched the above lay condition will prevent any more lays accidently triggering on this selection.
So you have "Close trade on selection"
ANY selection after 1min
..................................................
Conditions
"Matched bets amount Condition"
Back Bets greater than following fixed amount of £1
"Matched bets amount Condition"
Lay Bets equal to following fixed amount £0
These are needed to control the close trade lay bets
The first condition (although mainly a failsafe) only ensure a close trade can be placed if a selection has more than a £1 back bet ie you have dutched that runner.
the 2nd part ensures that the additional lays are not placed on the same selection ie it can only close with a lay if £0 has already been layed - once layed it cant trigger no more on this selection.
You need to ensure the number of triggers is more than the numbers of runners your dutching and re-arm them every 2 secs - Once a selection has been matched the above lay condition will prevent any more lays accidently triggering on this selection.
Last edited by Dallas on Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I should add that what you are wanting to do does have some potential flaws/liabilites.
Lets say you dutch a runner for £10 @ 6.0 and more or less from the off its odds drift and there now at 20.0 after 1 min your asking it to close with a equal £10 which will give you a potential liability of £140.00 on that runner if it then turns round and goes on to win.
So its always worth remembering if closing a trade without greening and the odds are higher than backed at you could be hit with a big loss if it wins.
For what your doing you could guard against it by telling it to only close the trade after 1 min if the odds are still below X or the loss is still under X on that selection.
Lets say you dutch a runner for £10 @ 6.0 and more or less from the off its odds drift and there now at 20.0 after 1 min your asking it to close with a equal £10 which will give you a potential liability of £140.00 on that runner if it then turns round and goes on to win.
So its always worth remembering if closing a trade without greening and the odds are higher than backed at you could be hit with a big loss if it wins.
For what your doing you could guard against it by telling it to only close the trade after 1 min if the odds are still below X or the loss is still under X on that selection.
If you still get stuck i can write the rule out for you, it can run without the back amount condition but safer with, it was your number of triggers I think you had wrong - also when you dutching pre race do you do it using the same stake on each runner and race or do you do it to a equal target profit?
Edit: If your using fixed stakes to back each runner there is a slightly different way it can be done
Edit: If your using fixed stakes to back each runner there is a slightly different way it can be done
Dallas and Euler.
Did exactly what Dallas suggested and didn't get the result I wanted. My requirement is to automate the pressing of the "close" button on the One click screen. Ths is so that any unmatched back bets get closed at the best market price at a set time during in play (with the stake as per the original input amount).
What Dallas suggested meant that using the "close trade on any selection" actually kicks off a Lay bet (for the same input amount) at that time and on every runner where I have a matched back bet. Thus, just about the complete opposite of what I want and obviously incurs horrible levels of risk where some horses are at very long odds.
Maybe BetAngel is doing what it is supposed to but it is the use of the word "close" for 2 different things that is confusing to me. I woud like to hear from Peter on this one and if it is possible to include this functionality in the next release that would be good
Thanks (and for your patience)
Did exactly what Dallas suggested and didn't get the result I wanted. My requirement is to automate the pressing of the "close" button on the One click screen. Ths is so that any unmatched back bets get closed at the best market price at a set time during in play (with the stake as per the original input amount).
What Dallas suggested meant that using the "close trade on any selection" actually kicks off a Lay bet (for the same input amount) at that time and on every runner where I have a matched back bet. Thus, just about the complete opposite of what I want and obviously incurs horrible levels of risk where some horses are at very long odds.
Maybe BetAngel is doing what it is supposed to but it is the use of the word "close" for 2 different things that is confusing to me. I woud like to hear from Peter on this one and if it is possible to include this functionality in the next release that would be good
Thanks (and for your patience)
I think some of the confusion has come from the title of this thread. You don't actually want to close the 'trade'. A trade is a matching back & lay bet, whereas you just want to ensure the back bet is filled at some point in time.
You've got a set of rules that places the bets before the start of the race.
So why not just repeat those rules if the amount of money matched on the selection is still £0 one minute into the race? You could even chose to use the best price less a few ticks to ensure a better chance of filling.
Perhaps cancel all unmatched bets ten seconds earlier to prevent double betting on a given selection.
You've got a set of rules that places the bets before the start of the race.
So why not just repeat those rules if the amount of money matched on the selection is still £0 one minute into the race? You could even chose to use the best price less a few ticks to ensure a better chance of filling.
Perhaps cancel all unmatched bets ten seconds earlier to prevent double betting on a given selection.