How does this pan out for most - especially as you get older?
I know this is an issue for many, in some respects, even more so for those who have had significant financial success. Has anyone achieved a good balance between trading and other pursuits in life. I've always thought the best period to have your own time would be when you've got a young family. For the rest of the time, I suppose the isolation and certain other factors can become more apparent.
I say this as I'm about to start doing some part time research work for a journalist - just to mix things up a bit. The balance might be quite difficult to manage in the summer months, but does anyone else combine trading with conventional employment or voluntary work?
Lack of purpose and life achievement as a trader/pro gambler
This is a very good post and question and im sure there will be lots of scenarios covered by people, when i came to trading it was to relief boredom, i was in a very fortunate position that my other interests no longer required any daily or even hands on input from me, my children where both in there mid teens so where fairly self-sufficient so my only obstacle was the isolation factor which did take a bit of getting used to as i really got into it.
Also not knowing anyone else personally at the time who done it added to this because even when around friends and there all talking about there days at works etc I could nt engage because unless you have done this you have no way of understanding anything that being said when someone talks about it so thankfully for me this was the hardest and really only factor i had to adapt to.
Also not knowing anyone else personally at the time who done it added to this because even when around friends and there all talking about there days at works etc I could nt engage because unless you have done this you have no way of understanding anything that being said when someone talks about it so thankfully for me this was the hardest and really only factor i had to adapt to.
How do you define "normal" though? Do you mean what the majority of society does or expects you to do? And if that's going to work everyday 9-5 in an office, I'm sure that the majority of those people would rather not be doing that.LeTiss 4pm wrote:I've done this job solely for 7 years, and I've become more and more detached from normal everyday life.
Sometimes I do wish that I did something with a bit more utility, but for the moment the utility is just to me and my family to pay the bills. Once I have no (or fewer) bills to pay I might do some other things.
In response to the subject of this thread, I think "purpose and achievement" are what you decide it to be, and it's likely to be slightly different for everyone.
This thread is sort of related too:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10942
xitian, I've never been married, but I've been engaged twice - each fiance I met through work, we were colleagues. Many people will give similar experiences
I suppose it's this normality that I am referring to. I went for a beer leading up to Christmas, it was in the bars of Ocean Village in Southampton. I looked around and it was full of work mates having Christmas drinks together, talking shop and having a laugh. I was there on my own!
However, I'm an only child, so this kind of isolation doesn't impact on me too much. In fact, I sometimes feel guilty and a little odd that it doesn't effect me as much as I think it should. Having said that though, it's the loneliness of this job that will kill many traders off. That's because if you need to have the company of work mates, boredom will lead you to make terrible trading decisions
I suppose I'm a loner in many ways, and that's why I continue to do this job. The thought of doing something 'normal' now, utterly fills me with dread and depression
I suppose it's this normality that I am referring to. I went for a beer leading up to Christmas, it was in the bars of Ocean Village in Southampton. I looked around and it was full of work mates having Christmas drinks together, talking shop and having a laugh. I was there on my own!
However, I'm an only child, so this kind of isolation doesn't impact on me too much. In fact, I sometimes feel guilty and a little odd that it doesn't effect me as much as I think it should. Having said that though, it's the loneliness of this job that will kill many traders off. That's because if you need to have the company of work mates, boredom will lead you to make terrible trading decisions
I suppose I'm a loner in many ways, and that's why I continue to do this job. The thought of doing something 'normal' now, utterly fills me with dread and depression
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Get yourself on tinder LeTiss. Should help with the lonely nights.
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convoysur-2
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:00 am
very interesting topic,
My background is in the hospitality industry followed by 11 years in sales,so im at heart very much a people person and extravert,
6 years of trading later,
i still have friends but have not spent any time with them in years ,my life has become cyber,my children are all in there 20s and there the only people i make an effort to meet in person.
i try to force myself to go out ,normally only once a week to shop for food etc,i make myself visit at least 3 pubs or hotels when im out ,even then my phone is never out of my hand watching betfair markets, its certainly not for phone calls, as only 5 people in total have my number, when there is a sport on tv of the premises im in im always reaching for my mouse,its become an extenion of my hand and i dont like it being more than 2 inches from me,when some one knocks the door i normally answer it with a very large knife in each hand ,this helps prevent there ticket selling return.
so to sum it all up ,i really do believe that trading changes peoples lifes,im very happy trading for a living,i have no boss and will never work for anyone again.ive become a recluse and antisocial ,but im very happy being that way,if paddy power closes the exchange ill be well screwed ,
im not lonely but have become a loner,
in the beginning i read traders blogs and they warned of this outcome,perhaps now i dont need to spend so much time online but im happy doing it.i have spent tens of thousands of hours watching markets ,reading blogs ,back testing ,we all know the story,but to get any way good i believe that this is necessary
and the balance is out the window,there is no balance.
so for all newbies good luck,
9-5 wont work in this game
Marc
My background is in the hospitality industry followed by 11 years in sales,so im at heart very much a people person and extravert,
6 years of trading later,
i still have friends but have not spent any time with them in years ,my life has become cyber,my children are all in there 20s and there the only people i make an effort to meet in person.
i try to force myself to go out ,normally only once a week to shop for food etc,i make myself visit at least 3 pubs or hotels when im out ,even then my phone is never out of my hand watching betfair markets, its certainly not for phone calls, as only 5 people in total have my number, when there is a sport on tv of the premises im in im always reaching for my mouse,its become an extenion of my hand and i dont like it being more than 2 inches from me,when some one knocks the door i normally answer it with a very large knife in each hand ,this helps prevent there ticket selling return.
so to sum it all up ,i really do believe that trading changes peoples lifes,im very happy trading for a living,i have no boss and will never work for anyone again.ive become a recluse and antisocial ,but im very happy being that way,if paddy power closes the exchange ill be well screwed ,
im not lonely but have become a loner,
in the beginning i read traders blogs and they warned of this outcome,perhaps now i dont need to spend so much time online but im happy doing it.i have spent tens of thousands of hours watching markets ,reading blogs ,back testing ,we all know the story,but to get any way good i believe that this is necessary
and the balance is out the window,there is no balance.
so for all newbies good luck,
9-5 wont work in this game
Marc
As it happens, things worked slightly differently for me.
Before I went pro, apprx 5 years ago, I was only 28 so I decided to pre-check how would be the outcome if I do this. I worked for my entire life cause my father was an entrepreneur owning different businesses , then studied and got 2 diplomas in IT and business management, served some multinationals in finance departments so it was time to do something for myself.
Started reading blogs, forums-including this- , books and articles. Pointers were clearly directing to a status of anti-social , anxiety and adrenalin addiction mostly.
It looked scary but I am a man of challenge.
As a result;I forced myself to prepare a business plan regarding all the aspects of trading; psychological ,financial, strategical, social, legal etc..Soon I found out doing this alone wont serve me good even if I become totally independent and rich.. Thought I would go nuts as I have Mediterranean origins, totally opposite of lone cowboys..
So I started looking around , found couple of guys whom I knew well and convinced them somehow - took about 6 months - to start with me. Rented an office, went through all the obstacles together and we did survive the hardest part:beginning..
Apart from the first few months where we were totally in the mood of survival, no money, lots of debts, bills to pay etc, okay lets say a year
, we always had a pretty normal life. Going out couple of nights a week, taking out Mondays and Fridays as off days to spend with girlfriends, organizing poker nights with friends after tiring Saturday sessions..Traveling a lot for events. tournaments and making most of it.. Playing football, basketball, tennis, working out at the gym or even enjoying a long spa session where you could release all the stress in your vains.. All according to the business plan..
Its been 52 months now, only 1 being losing in PandL but most importantly some of the guys left , some other joined but I have been feeling great doing this dream job, sharing all the knowledge and experience.. of course also the financial outcomes : profits.. Not being selfish is one of the key words here, I suppose.. Neither in business nor in life.
Before I went pro, apprx 5 years ago, I was only 28 so I decided to pre-check how would be the outcome if I do this. I worked for my entire life cause my father was an entrepreneur owning different businesses , then studied and got 2 diplomas in IT and business management, served some multinationals in finance departments so it was time to do something for myself.
Started reading blogs, forums-including this- , books and articles. Pointers were clearly directing to a status of anti-social , anxiety and adrenalin addiction mostly.
It looked scary but I am a man of challenge.
As a result;I forced myself to prepare a business plan regarding all the aspects of trading; psychological ,financial, strategical, social, legal etc..Soon I found out doing this alone wont serve me good even if I become totally independent and rich.. Thought I would go nuts as I have Mediterranean origins, totally opposite of lone cowboys..
So I started looking around , found couple of guys whom I knew well and convinced them somehow - took about 6 months - to start with me. Rented an office, went through all the obstacles together and we did survive the hardest part:beginning..
Apart from the first few months where we were totally in the mood of survival, no money, lots of debts, bills to pay etc, okay lets say a year
, we always had a pretty normal life. Going out couple of nights a week, taking out Mondays and Fridays as off days to spend with girlfriends, organizing poker nights with friends after tiring Saturday sessions..Traveling a lot for events. tournaments and making most of it.. Playing football, basketball, tennis, working out at the gym or even enjoying a long spa session where you could release all the stress in your vains.. All according to the business plan..Its been 52 months now, only 1 being losing in PandL but most importantly some of the guys left , some other joined but I have been feeling great doing this dream job, sharing all the knowledge and experience.. of course also the financial outcomes : profits.. Not being selfish is one of the key words here, I suppose.. Neither in business nor in life.
Balance is important whether its trading or working.Its not exclusive to trading.
I feel EXTREMELY lucky to have stumbled over Betfair/Betangel 8 years or so ago. It genuiely changed my life and that those close to me (inc a couple of friends)
Whilst Ive always had a very well paid career, the earning from Betfair was a surreal experience and upto around mid 2011 ecplised my normal salary. At that point if I'd had the opportunity to take redundancy, i would have taken it. The betfair profits are virtually untouched sitting in the bank
I made it known at work that I would be interested in taking the package, but it never came, even though many others were 'tapped' on the shoulder.
In some ways Im glad though as I enjoy my day job and the profits for me are no where near where they were some years ago.
I work from home but travel three or four days a month often to the US and I really enjoy it.
Ive been in sales now for >15 years and never missed target until this year (I sell into the Oil industry, so that needs no explanation!). Ill probably lose a big chunk in commission this year, but as Im now sitting on a nice nest egg thanks to Betfair its of less importance to me.
I see people at work who are in a different situation to me. they have big mortagages and a couple of small kids and they are FRIGHTENED to death of being made redundant. Me; I dont care and I have a much less stress free life. No one at work knows about Betfair.
At my age; Life achievement is seeing my children happy and settled, not about how flash my car is or how many bedrooms we have. The material things in life seem less important these days.
Mind you; they say that money isnt important till you have none.
I feel EXTREMELY lucky to have stumbled over Betfair/Betangel 8 years or so ago. It genuiely changed my life and that those close to me (inc a couple of friends)
Whilst Ive always had a very well paid career, the earning from Betfair was a surreal experience and upto around mid 2011 ecplised my normal salary. At that point if I'd had the opportunity to take redundancy, i would have taken it. The betfair profits are virtually untouched sitting in the bank
I made it known at work that I would be interested in taking the package, but it never came, even though many others were 'tapped' on the shoulder.
In some ways Im glad though as I enjoy my day job and the profits for me are no where near where they were some years ago.
I work from home but travel three or four days a month often to the US and I really enjoy it.
Ive been in sales now for >15 years and never missed target until this year (I sell into the Oil industry, so that needs no explanation!). Ill probably lose a big chunk in commission this year, but as Im now sitting on a nice nest egg thanks to Betfair its of less importance to me.
I see people at work who are in a different situation to me. they have big mortagages and a couple of small kids and they are FRIGHTENED to death of being made redundant. Me; I dont care and I have a much less stress free life. No one at work knows about Betfair.
At my age; Life achievement is seeing my children happy and settled, not about how flash my car is or how many bedrooms we have. The material things in life seem less important these days.
Mind you; they say that money isnt important till you have none.
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marksmeets302
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm
Maybe it's different for me, I'm an automation kind of guy so I spend my time making software. It's never boring, creates challenges that appeal to me. Plus betfair is not the only thing I do. I spend a lot of time on the financial markets and try to learn new things. Last couple of months for instance I've been trying to master the field of machine learning. Can't say I miss the company of others. In the morning I usually do some sports and that usually leads to talking to a few people. After that I'm fine spending the rest of the day in solitude until dinner with my family. As far as I'm concerned I'm living the dream.
I have to say that I'm pretty much in the same boat as Mark. I wake up each day feeling very fortunately to be in the position that I'm in. I too focus on automation.
I think it definitely helps that I have my wife to keep me sane, but at the same time I'm definitely an introvert, and have been all my life. As I've gotten older I've come to be happy with that and accept it more than when I was younger though.
I don't think this career path means that you have to be less social than anybody else. I always have the choice to go out an be sociable if I want to be. It's just that I'm not automatically thrust into that situation by being stuck in an office with people I may or may not like. I think having this freedom is better than not.
I do still go out and socialise with friends, just perhaps not as much as other people do. Plus I'm generally more selective with who I socialise with nowadays. I just have a few very close friends which I think is more important that being the most popular person on Facebook.
I've worked quite a few years in big investment banks in IT and hated it. I did not feel as though I had any more purpose working there than I do now. I'm now my own boss and earn multiples of what I used to (even after PC), and Jan is on course for being a record month in my near 6 years of trading. I do work hard at it, but for now the benefits and financial rewards far outweigh and negatives.
I think it definitely helps that I have my wife to keep me sane, but at the same time I'm definitely an introvert, and have been all my life. As I've gotten older I've come to be happy with that and accept it more than when I was younger though.
I don't think this career path means that you have to be less social than anybody else. I always have the choice to go out an be sociable if I want to be. It's just that I'm not automatically thrust into that situation by being stuck in an office with people I may or may not like. I think having this freedom is better than not.
I do still go out and socialise with friends, just perhaps not as much as other people do. Plus I'm generally more selective with who I socialise with nowadays. I just have a few very close friends which I think is more important that being the most popular person on Facebook.
I've worked quite a few years in big investment banks in IT and hated it. I did not feel as though I had any more purpose working there than I do now. I'm now my own boss and earn multiples of what I used to (even after PC), and Jan is on course for being a record month in my near 6 years of trading. I do work hard at it, but for now the benefits and financial rewards far outweigh and negatives.
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marksmeets302
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm
I've worked my ass off!Have you ever worked full time?
seriously, I've been very lucky. I did three things right in my life: started investing at a young age, bought shares in the company I worked for, and in 2008 I loaded up on long term treasury bonds. The power of compounding, profiting instead of suffering from one of the worst market declines in history, and the joys of still owning stock when said company went public... that's it.
On the other hand, I've worked 12 years at that company and it was quite demanding: getting out of bed at 5:30, returning home no earlier than 20:00, eating in front of the tv, go to bed and next day do it all over again. It's not like I've never worked hard. Makes me appreciate the current situation all the more!
Another thing that puts things in perspective is the multiple times that I have experienced friends or colleagues who have worked for their companies for many years, to all of a sudden be made redundant. Completely no fault of their own, and having absolutely no reward for their dedication and years of service.
Redundancy package I hear you say? Not necessarily. Depends on your employment contract. One of my friends who works for a FTSE 250 company and has been them for 8 years and is quite senior is likely to lose his job due to a takeover. He's expecting to get paid his notice and statutory redundancy pay only. I'm pretty sure he's going to feel angry rather than happy having achieved a lot for his company for 8 years.
For me, there's no one to depend on but myself. Day job security is an illusion.
Redundancy package I hear you say? Not necessarily. Depends on your employment contract. One of my friends who works for a FTSE 250 company and has been them for 8 years and is quite senior is likely to lose his job due to a takeover. He's expecting to get paid his notice and statutory redundancy pay only. I'm pretty sure he's going to feel angry rather than happy having achieved a lot for his company for 8 years.
For me, there's no one to depend on but myself. Day job security is an illusion.