Good Evening guys and girls.....can you help?

[boing00]

Good Evening,
After attending Peters masterclass on the 25th January I have spent the last 5/6 weeks or so getting to grips with what I saw and reading through the bible he sent us packing with....

If possible guys id like to ask for a bit of help. The course itself was mindblowing and imperative to anyone looking for a solid introduction to trading. My situation is that im in a full time job at the jaguar car factory.... it takes up around 50 hours of my time a week for mere £400 take home. I do run a small business too on the weekend which tops my wage off really nicely. I want to get to a stage where I can take back the 50 hours a week i spent in the car plant! I figure to do this i only really need to find a trading system (s) to make me £40-£50 a day.

I would like some pointers if possible on what I should concentrate on to make this possible. I understand there is no easy way to make money trading and ive put tens of hours into it since leaving the classroom in janaury. Ive bounced around looking at scalping horses, to tennis and football. Ive actually had a bit of success in all three fields especially tennis with enough liquidity.... football as long as we dont get early goals (laying over 2.5 goals) and horse racing pre race but only for £1-£2.

Is it possible someone could point me in the direction of where I should concentrate? If I can make £50 a day then believe it or not its actually a life changing amount for me as i can grab back 50 hours a week to concentrate further on trading. Like i said i have a small business that pays the bills so I wont be taking a huge risk by leaving Jaguar.

Hope this all makes sense and isnt too forward. Im using bet angel by the way and have been paying close attention to Dallas automation thread hoping I can make use of it.

Thanks in advance and dont shoot me down. im as new as they come

Have a good evening
Kris

[marko236]

Good Evening,
After attending Peters masterclass on the 25th January I have spent the last 5/6 weeks or so getting to grips with what I saw and reading through the bible he sent us packing with....

If possible guys id like to ask for a bit of help. The course itself was mindblowing and imperative to anyone looking for a solid introduction to trading. My situation is that im in a full time job at the jaguar car factory.... it takes up around 50 hours of my time a week for mere £400 take home. I do run a small business too on the weekend which tops my wage off really nicely. I want to get to a stage where I can take back the 50 hours a week i spent in the car plant! I figure to do this i only really need to find a trading system (s) to make me £40-£50 a day.

I would like some pointers if possible on what I should concentrate on to make this possible. I understand there is no easy way to make money trading and ive put tens of hours into it since leaving the classroom in janaury. Ive bounced around looking at scalping horses, to tennis and football. Ive actually had a bit of success in all three fields especially tennis with enough liquidity.... football as long as we dont get early goals (laying over 2.5 goals) and horse racing pre race but only for £1-£2.

Is it possible someone could point me in the direction of where I should concentrate? If I can make £50 a day then believe it or not its actually a life changing amount for me as i can grab back 50 hours a week to concentrate further on trading. Like i said i have a small business that pays the bills so I wont be taking a huge risk by leaving Jaguar.

Hope this all makes sense and isnt too forward. Im using bet angel by the way and have been paying close attention to Dallas automation thread hoping I can make use of it.

Thanks in advance and dont shoot me down. im as new as they come

Have a good evening
Kris

Hi Kris,

I'v just went part time at my work to trade but that's only after 2 years of trading after work, i'v saved enough money to keep me covered for the next 4 months, i'm now 1 month in and it's paying off.

It's hard to learn to trade when you are working full time and it all comes down to risk, if you left your work and trading doesn't work out what happens then?

I'v covered myself with money and i can go straight back to full time work if it didn't work out.

It's a tough choice but if you want something bad enough plan to give yourself time to do it right.

[boing00]

Hi
Thanks for your reply. My blinds and shutter business would continue.. as this could be worked around trading and it doesnt take a lot of time at all to earn a few decent quid. Im planning on saving around 6 months worth of bills and mortgage payments so i have 6 months free time.... any money earned off the blinds in the meantime would be used to top up my betfair account to increase my trading bank.

I would just like to if possible cover a partial amount of the Jaguar wage even if its only 20/30 a day (preferably £50 a day) so that I dont actually touch the 6 months worth of money i have saved. This in turn could be used for further education by visiting Peter again in the future. I know people have mentioned having little ways of earning a few quid daily and this is all i want direction on if possible. I know some days it wont go to plan and other days it will ...

Thanks again
Kris

[marko236]

If you can make good money off your blind company why not spend time building that up first to cover your costs of living and that should free up some time for trading?

[boing00]

My costs of living will be covered with my savings mark... Id just rather not start out from a completely blank page. If i can protect my savings then that would be great, if i have to use them for living then so be it! If i could have 1 or 2 strategies that Im currently working on when I go full time then at least ive got a bit of extra money coming my way when the strategies work for me.

Its not all about money mark... my wife has a good job, ill have savings and a little business. My passion is learning trading not running a full time blinds company.

Im not being greedy im just looking for a bit of advice.

I appreciate your comments though.

Kris

[marko236]

If you want it that much go for it, lifes to short not to. Good luck.

[megarain]

Hi Kris,

This is not a simple question, both to answer, and to know whether it should be answered.

let me expand.

I have a 55 yr old friend, who was potless, 10 mths ago. On v hard times, he turned to a beat-up ice-cream van .. which he made presentable, and on decent days, can now make £200 a day.

Apart from the solid income, it has a very tangible benefit, in that his customers, are young/happy kids, who have a positive outlook on life (the ice-cream .. oh, its great to be so short-term focussed), and its generally a pleasant job.

He asked me, for help, re trading. I said to him .. he had no shot .. hes largely just too old, to be re-trained.

This wasnt 100% accurate, but, he has a gambling problem, and lacks the discipline, to be a long-term winner.

Basically, I made a call, that it was better to turn him off gambling, and spend more time, building his business .. which was/is solid.


Its a definate plus u have been on a course, and tried etc, but there are many realities, which are maybe not somehow, always established.

1.The exchange markets are pretty efficient. They charge a never ending rake (comm), plus super rake, (premium charge - which u would hit, even making £50 a day).

2.To make repeatable money, u have to both know your market, and spend a lot of time on it.

3.You have to have an edge .. which, needs to be, as much as 5% over the market.

Ask yourself the question .. If I say to you, go trade the 'Bandy' markets .. ((Bandy is a v popular ice-hockey type game)), u would need to both enjoy the sport, to watch it so much, to become good enough, to create your edge.

Would u do it ?

Would u spend .. maybe 40 hrs, watching, (if u could watch), and then be prepared to back your judgement ?

On the flip side, would it be right of me, to encourage u, to take time away from your business .. I see, its maybe a long-term investment/proposition .. but, etc etc.

Anyone will tell u, u need to be cleaverer than the crowd.

By now, I would respectfully say, most popular sports are sort of worked out .. so, u need to find marginal / probably illiquid sports, to look at .. or

Really liquid sports, which have growing volume on the exchanges.

Peter somewhere put up a volume chart a while back .. basically, cricket was one of the few sports, really growing in matched volume growth.

I often ask myself, if I was starting from scratch, would I be favourite, to win, £100 a day, with a bank of say, £3k.

Having seen so many people fail at this, over the last 5 yrs .. I think u really, really need to use the practice software, and try things.

I am an expert at test cricket, and can make money, watching / trading it. But, am largely now, on auto-pilot.

I intend to spend the next 2 mths, trying a new, less liquid, sport .. and rate myself as only a slight fav, to be showing profit on it, in 3 mths time .. it just takes that much time, to work things out, and then get past variance.

I dont want to be down .. its great u know where u are, and what u want .. but, u really need a plan .. if possible, shared with your life-partner .. as believe me, to become profitable from scratch, will take v long hrs, and your partner needs to know.

Thats even assumming, u have no life leaks.

Anyway, in summary .. find a sport, u really like/know, and try to become an expert at it. Then, within that sport, maybe find side-markets, which are not as accurate, and maybe, u will find a niche.

I dont believe luck is really neccesary .. so, wont wish u any .. if u put in the hard work, variance will work itself out, and u should be a winner .. the key, is knowing, when u have a trade, its +EV .. (expected value) .. getting to that spot thou, is easier said than done.

[Alpha322]

Am just going to put my thoughts on here to advice you of the reality. I work full time, varried shifts short hours and long weekends, but they come round every 7 weeks, good Salary, so i class myself as one of the fortunate ones who can remain a part time trader. I got into trading in Feb 2009. I stopped conventional gamballing in the year of 1994 when the face of racing changed big time from the trainers you was sure to win money with Henry Cecil (RIP) , Jerrmy Tree, Sir Micheal Stout and Luca Cumani.These guys dominated the tracks back then. When i discoverd Betfair i liked the fact you could lay a horse to make money but it was still the same as a mug bet. I then discovered Peters software and like you i went to Hockley to his class to learn how to use it, i didnt expect a strategy from Peter i found that 5 years down the line after blowing numeous banks in my first 2 years, by year 3 diciplines started to kick in, and i found a couple of edges. So what am saying is the only person that can earn that £50 a day is you by really putting in the work, playing with small stakes and learning to read the market. I played Bet Angel in parctice mode one whole year with quite a big bank just sitting in my bank account, its now paid off. Its about consistency not value, the green ups add up, forget about targets learn how the markets move and be consistant, because when you find out you made £50, trust me you will try for more you will not switch off that PC and what happens you lose it all. Cheltenham next week will be different. Trading is about being consistant in the markets, the bank will tell the story at the end of the month , year.

Good Luck, take time

[marksmeets302]

Given your time limits, my advice would be to focus on automation.

[Crazyskier]

Interesting thread. Having attempted similar myself since last summer, I'm also riding the roller coaster of wins /losses and refining strategies and finding the right balance between pre-off and in-play and what market etc etc.

Thus far I've only 1-2 strategies that (seem to) earn consistent profits and they require large banks and a ton of discipline, often with whole days of almost zero profit, and many hours just recouping losses, just to avoid the terminal blown bank scenario.

To set out with a fixed figure daily or weekly in mind is in my opinion a recipe for disaster. As many here have said many times, the MONTHLY or even ANNUAL bank will determine success or failure, not daily or weekly as almost every strategy has peaks and troughs; the key is a long-term disciplined approach.

To make £50 in one day is easy if your bank is big enough - there are many systems like just simply laying the favourite and rolling any losses to 'double-up' next race for example. The problem here is having the discipline and focus and starting bank / staking system to accommodate the inevitable losing streaks. The real challenge lies in producing a whole year's results that EQUATE to that £XX daily profit nett - this is the coveted outcome of us all buddy.

The trick as others have said is to study, watch the videos and explore in practice mode, refining and being selective and looking for an 'edge'. My personal advice is forget trying for XX amount initially, and aim more for AVOIDING LOSS. When you achieve that, stakes may be increased...

Good luck!

[PeterLe]

To make £50 in one day is easy if your bank is big enough

Good luck!

Not true Just means you lose it quicker (sometimes)
Do a search on "Ten Pound Trader" in Peter's blog.
If you are a good trader, you could make £50 day with very little bank; conversely, if your not a good trader, it doesn't matter if you have £20K in your bank..

[marko236]

To make £50 in one day is easy if your bank is big enough

Good luck!

Not true Just means you lose it quicker (sometimes)
Do a search on "Ten Pound Trader" in Peter's blog.
If you are a good trader, you could make £50 day with very little bank; conversely, if your not a good trader, it doesn't matter if you have £20K in your bank..

A good trader could make £50 a day running about £5000 worth of trades through all the horse racing markets, so say they do 30 races thats an average of £166 in each market, so if they are using an average of £5 per trade it means they are putting an average of 33 trades per race.

You dont need a big bank when you are using an average of £5.

[boing00]

Guys

I want to thank each and everyone of you for your comments and advise. invaluable.

I am going to change my way of thinking and get rid of daily/monthly targets etc.

Horse racing is my sport... so im going to get my head into strategies that can work on it. Thanks to everyone that contributed.

Good Luck

[Crazyskier]

To make £50 in one day is easy if your bank is big enough

You dont need a big bank when you are using an average of £5.

Good luck!

Not true Just means you lose it quicker (sometimes)
Do a search on "Ten Pound Trader" in Peter's blog.
If you are a good trader, you could make £50 day with very little bank; conversely, if your not a good trader, it doesn't matter if you have £20K in your bank..

Well funnily enough, I test all my strategies with just 0.25p / 50p / £1 or the absolute maximum of £2 stakes. Here are today's results of almost loss-free cards on both the doggies and geegees. This is not atypical or unusual in any way and you'll see other threads of mine showing similar results with larger stakes, but using the same PRINCIPLES of loss avoidance being the priority rather than large gains.

One of the benefits of this style of play is indeed that only tiny stakes / starting bank are used until consistent profits and patterns emerge, however the OP is asking for a set target of £50 daily profit and my point was that that's the wrong way to approach this unless one has a five-figure starting bank where any number of double-up until win or Martingale style staking plans may be used to relatively easily 'bully' small returns at tiny % odds, not necessarily through scalping or swing trading, but many other methods with appropriate bank size.

It should be noted that the only £2 (full stake loss) that occurred today was an exhausted horse that went from contesting second to FIFTH between the last fence and the winning line - yes I had him to place in top 4! C'est la vie I guess. Otherwise the penny-pinching worked as expected.

[Crazyskier]

Guys
I am going to change my way of thinking and get rid of daily/monthly targets etc.

That is indeed my philosophy too. Make the bet because you have an edge or it's great value, not because you NEED to make a set £xx per hour / day / month.

I learned that lesson several times for it to sink in! Some other advice that some of the more experienced guys gave me that I found helpful was to ride the profits but use discipline to close losing positions FAST.

Bon sortie!