Markets for UK futures and gilts will open at 1am GMT time on May 7 as the general election is decided.
A note from the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) London International Financial Futures and Options Exchange (Liffe) has revealed that markets for three-month short Sterling futures, short, medium and long gilt futures and also FTSE 100 index futures contracts will be available for trading at 1am GMT on May 7, six hours earlier than usual.
Dow jones plunges 1000 points or 10%
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Looks like they have consulted Betfair on how to manage the market 
" Nasdaq OMX Group Inc. said it will cancel stock trades on all exchanges that were more than 60 percent above or below prices at 2:40 p.m. New York time, just as U.S. equities plummeted"
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... bJ.0&pos=1
Must be a good few cases where people don't have a clue of their positions.
" Nasdaq OMX Group Inc. said it will cancel stock trades on all exchanges that were more than 60 percent above or below prices at 2:40 p.m. New York time, just as U.S. equities plummeted"
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... bJ.0&pos=1
Must be a good few cases where people don't have a clue of their positions.
The short answer is that short term trading on the stock market never worked for me. I know it works for some but it didn't work for me and I found there was a massive headwind in making it work. You don't have that headwind on Betfair.andyfuller wrote:Those markets are much more scaleable than Betfair, I am surprised it isn't something you look more to do Peter given that you seem to be at the limits of the horse markets in terms of the money you can put through.
Is there any reason that you don't that you could share (excuse the pun)?
The longer answer: -
I started looking at financial markets in the mid-80s but didn't really actively get involved until the 90s. At first I was very focused on statistical analysis of the markets, technical analysis and primarily short-term trading. But I found two things held me back significantly. The first was transaction costs, which are horrendous in financial markets. When you look at the aggregate of money you can make from the markets it can't be more than what the underlying financial instrument throws off in cash. It turns out that the amount charged to manage positions in the market far exceeds that which is thrown off by the underlying instrument. In other words the market is there to make money from you not for you. When short term trading the intermediateries net more than the market participants. I also discovered that despite trying every piece of technical analysis, the core question you are looking at in financial markets is, "what price should it be?". That led me down the route of investment proper and value investing. Which has worked wonderfully for me.
When you are an investor rather than a speculator you effectively lend your money to people and expect a return on that money. You find yourself in the wonderful position where you earn money whether you turn up to the office or not. You get paid dividends and if you are a good stock picker the price of the stock rises as well. I learned that if you do roughly the right thing most of the time you'll be okay. Some of the best investments I have made I have held for over a decade and just the dividends have covered a large part of my original investment, so I'll be holding these companies pretty much forever and getting paid to do so. Investing was easy and worked well. Short term trading was tough, time consuming and was difficult to make it pay after costs.
After ten years on Betfair I am at the limits of what I can do, but any excess I invest. I still feel there is more for me to discover on Betfair, so I'll keep going until such point as I run out of ideas or it becomes so marginal that it doesn't pay in comparison to other things I work on.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Interesting reply and makes sense - cheers.
Hi guys
sorry for my pennnys worth here (I know I'm not in your league) - I spread bet the Dow Jones 2003 to 2008.
The Dow Jones is bouncing between an inverted Head & Shoulders pattern in 2003 and a Head and Shoulders pattern 2007 - after a 50% ish retracement Mar 09 another Inverted Head and Shoulders pattern formed. We are currently in a 50% retracement wave. 10,000 is the natural support area to be tested which it bounced off yesterday - although this will probably be tested again. If it holds then Dow heading back up to 12,000 to 13,000.
If it fails we will see 9000 to 8000 and depending on how bad the world economics really is a test of 6500 may re-occur.
The financial course I finally went on in the city did not have a good thing to say about spread betting - in fact they called them "retail" prices and who want to pay those prices - spread was 4 to 6 points.
The other problem was that when economic data was released the systems always seemed to be down! This is no good as the city people only seemed to trade at these times.
You may have read in a previous post of mine the only time I "made" any money was when I bought penny shares. 6 companies for 10k late 2002.
3 years later they were worth £500,000.
And unfortunately I sold them a couple of months later when I saw Vince S. advert in the paper earn £400 per day spread betting.
So I agree with Peter - for me world recessions are an amazing opportunity!!!!
(Although despite my experience I am now cash poor - in the poor house as somebody once said on the forum so I can not benefit from such opportunities.)
sorry for my pennnys worth here (I know I'm not in your league) - I spread bet the Dow Jones 2003 to 2008.
The Dow Jones is bouncing between an inverted Head & Shoulders pattern in 2003 and a Head and Shoulders pattern 2007 - after a 50% ish retracement Mar 09 another Inverted Head and Shoulders pattern formed. We are currently in a 50% retracement wave. 10,000 is the natural support area to be tested which it bounced off yesterday - although this will probably be tested again. If it holds then Dow heading back up to 12,000 to 13,000.
If it fails we will see 9000 to 8000 and depending on how bad the world economics really is a test of 6500 may re-occur.
The financial course I finally went on in the city did not have a good thing to say about spread betting - in fact they called them "retail" prices and who want to pay those prices - spread was 4 to 6 points.
The other problem was that when economic data was released the systems always seemed to be down! This is no good as the city people only seemed to trade at these times.
You may have read in a previous post of mine the only time I "made" any money was when I bought penny shares. 6 companies for 10k late 2002.
3 years later they were worth £500,000.
And unfortunately I sold them a couple of months later when I saw Vince S. advert in the paper earn £400 per day spread betting.
So I agree with Peter - for me world recessions are an amazing opportunity!!!!
(Although despite my experience I am now cash poor - in the poor house as somebody once said on the forum so I can not benefit from such opportunities.)
Hi guys,
yesterday was mental to say the least! I attached the daily chart of the e mini so you get an idea of just how much of a drop there was. The main drop took about 5 minutes to get from the top all the way to the bottom.
There were a couple of rumours going round last night:
1, it got started by the P&G share issue and
2, Citi e mini trading desk sold 16 Bn instead of 16 Million.
Citi made an announcement shortly afterwards that that after an investigation there was no error and they never sold 16 Billion. I haven't actually looked at the market replay but from what I remember it just dropped off my screen and dropped like a stone. It was like an inplay 5f sprint at kempton on a wednesday night!!!
Luckily I was out and I had no intentions of putting my account at risk after seeing that! Even though I only trade with a small account there was still a 450 tick movement and my account would have been cleaned out in seconds! Its $12.50 per contract per tick so a modest trader even trading 10 contracts at a time would be in a serious loss in seconds at the rate the market moved.
The reason the market went so quickly was greece. I saw a report on bloomberg that it was at the exact same time as the rioting started on a bloomberg report. They market was hit and that triggered everyones stops which just turned it into a massive snowball effect. Everyone had to get out and in doing so got more people in. Repeat several times and all of a sudden the market is in freefall.
Today has been a pretty volatile day as the market doesn't really know what to do with itself. The brokers have all tripled the margin requirements to trade the e mini after yesterday to try and reduce some exposure as they probably got hit bigtime yesterday.
Anyone with any spare cash might want to consider buying us treasuries and metals as they went through the roof. My friend who works for hsbc was long gold and after yesterday is guaranteed a monstrous bonus the year! Sell equities and euros with avengeance!
yesterday was mental to say the least! I attached the daily chart of the e mini so you get an idea of just how much of a drop there was. The main drop took about 5 minutes to get from the top all the way to the bottom.
There were a couple of rumours going round last night:
1, it got started by the P&G share issue and
2, Citi e mini trading desk sold 16 Bn instead of 16 Million.
Citi made an announcement shortly afterwards that that after an investigation there was no error and they never sold 16 Billion. I haven't actually looked at the market replay but from what I remember it just dropped off my screen and dropped like a stone. It was like an inplay 5f sprint at kempton on a wednesday night!!!
Luckily I was out and I had no intentions of putting my account at risk after seeing that! Even though I only trade with a small account there was still a 450 tick movement and my account would have been cleaned out in seconds! Its $12.50 per contract per tick so a modest trader even trading 10 contracts at a time would be in a serious loss in seconds at the rate the market moved.
The reason the market went so quickly was greece. I saw a report on bloomberg that it was at the exact same time as the rioting started on a bloomberg report. They market was hit and that triggered everyones stops which just turned it into a massive snowball effect. Everyone had to get out and in doing so got more people in. Repeat several times and all of a sudden the market is in freefall.
Today has been a pretty volatile day as the market doesn't really know what to do with itself. The brokers have all tripled the margin requirements to trade the e mini after yesterday to try and reduce some exposure as they probably got hit bigtime yesterday.
Anyone with any spare cash might want to consider buying us treasuries and metals as they went through the roof. My friend who works for hsbc was long gold and after yesterday is guaranteed a monstrous bonus the year! Sell equities and euros with avengeance!
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
Hi, I've checked some data on this move and there was no mistake, the volumes show that. Also, three minutes before the crash you could spot the move on the forex.
Maybe the market will test this support in the near future?
Even if you take into account that snow ball effect this shows how fragile buyers are, so bears on command for a long time?
Maybe the market will test this support in the near future?
Even if you take into account that snow ball effect this shows how fragile buyers are, so bears on command for a long time?
Hi JimRobo
Now the price has already skyrocketed, it is not perhaps better to consider selling rather than buying?
I notice that, on the daily rolling chart for gold, there is divergence between the MACD and the price between the 13th of April and yesterday (Friday). Also, the latest bar indicates market indecision. The above suggests to me that the rise may be over for now.
Jeff
Now the price has already skyrocketed, it is not perhaps better to consider selling rather than buying?
I notice that, on the daily rolling chart for gold, there is divergence between the MACD and the price between the 13th of April and yesterday (Friday). Also, the latest bar indicates market indecision. The above suggests to me that the rise may be over for now.
Jeff
jimrobo wrote: Anyone with any spare cash might want to consider buying us treasuries and metals as they went through the roof.
i like your comment Jeff
"True, although you need to be careful when you're trying to catch a falling knife."
For me Buffet is a trader who trades very long timeframes - not like a scalper 1min, 60 min, daily types of traders.
And you have hit the nail on the head -
the skill is not trying to catch the knife while its falling but rather to pick it up once it has fallen
"True, although you need to be careful when you're trying to catch a falling knife."
For me Buffet is a trader who trades very long timeframes - not like a scalper 1min, 60 min, daily types of traders.
And you have hit the nail on the head -
the skill is not trying to catch the knife while its falling but rather to pick it up once it has fallen
Absolutely. But how do you know when the knife has stopped falling? 
I once had a colleague who was convinced that Lloyds TSB's stock would rise as soon as the merger with HBOS was confirmed. So he bought about 20 grand's worth of Lloyds TSB shares. Days later, around the time of the confirmation, the price plummeted!
I had tried to warn the guy that, rather than being artificially low due to panic selling, the price of Lloyds's shares might actually be artifically high due to people doing what he was doing. But he wouldn't have it! And when I asked him whether he had a stoploss in place, he said he'd look into stoplosses at some point!
I wasn't too cut up about his misfortune, as I disliked the guy! In fact, whenever I was feeling bored, I'd check the Lloyds TSB share price and speculate whether he'd bailed out or if he was the proud owner of shares that were worth half of what he paid for them!
Jeff
I once had a colleague who was convinced that Lloyds TSB's stock would rise as soon as the merger with HBOS was confirmed. So he bought about 20 grand's worth of Lloyds TSB shares. Days later, around the time of the confirmation, the price plummeted!
I had tried to warn the guy that, rather than being artificially low due to panic selling, the price of Lloyds's shares might actually be artifically high due to people doing what he was doing. But he wouldn't have it! And when I asked him whether he had a stoploss in place, he said he'd look into stoplosses at some point!
I wasn't too cut up about his misfortune, as I disliked the guy!
In fact, whenever I was feeling bored, I'd check the Lloyds TSB share price and speculate whether he'd bailed out or if he was the proud owner of shares that were worth half of what he paid for them!Jeff
ba1000 wrote:i like your comment Jeff
"True, although you need to be careful when you're trying to catch a falling knife."
For me Buffet is a trader who trades very long timeframes - not like a scalper 1min, 60 min, daily types of traders.
And you have hit the nail on the head -
the skill is not trying to catch the knife while its falling but rather to pick it up once it has fallen