OK, I give up, what is it with Saturday racing ?

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JollyGreen
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PDC wrote:
JollyGreen wrote:The markets have changed and they continue to change but one thing is certain, scalping is not a viable option unless you can find really suitable markets and then take advantage.
I do not agree with what Jolly Green has said. I respect that he has been around a lot longer than I but how I read what he has said is that you need to be very selective as to which races you can/should scalp as scalping every market is not viable. My approach is exactly the one that he says is not viable and I have had good results with it since I have started. The reason I choose to go down the path of scalping every market is that it goes against the general wisdom that seems to be that swing trading and automation are the only real way to make money from the markets. So whilst everyone else is trying to swing and automate the market forgets about scalping and creates an opportunity. I know Peter Webb is a big believer in going against the crowd and it seems to be working for me. I think Dallas's post was the best about the issues with regards to Saturday markets.
I said be selective and as mentioned, it can work but it will not be as profitable as finding larger moves in the market. I see that "Badger" (nocturnal black and white creature) bangs this drum and says it is better to get six lots of 1 tick scalps than one six tick swing trade. Then you visit his training course to watch him lose £1K trying to scalp the markets.

I can also assure you that you will not find Peter scalping markets other than the occasional market midweek which allows the method or perhaps the Cheltenham Festival meeting. He will be looking for large moves and his against the crowd theory is based on finding the end of a move and then catching the reverse.
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SeaHorseRacing
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What training course? lol
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JollyGreen
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SeaHorseRacing wrote:What training course? lol
The black and white creature offers a training course on how to trade Betfair. I have not been myself but I have spoken with lots of people who have and apparently he regularly loses money when trying to show his scalping strategy. One guy was quite honest and said he was totally shocked when he watched him lose £1,000 in a training session.
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SeaHorseRacing
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Ah I see.

Charging a fortune I guess?
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Dallas
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JollyGreen wrote:One guy was quite honest and said he was totally shocked when he watched him lose £1,000 in a training session.
No wonder he has to charge the fees he does!
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JollyGreen
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Well I was working with a new trader and when he told me I really thought he was joking! He was deadly serious and said he also was totally shocked :shock:

If you need proof of the lack of long term efficacy then think about the maths. I have mentioned this before.

In a scalp your profit is 1 tick. Therefore your loss can only be 1 tick as any more and you will find yourself in a deficit. That means long term you have to achieve a phenomenal strike rate hence my advice to be selective. Now I know I could not achieve this in every market and I know Peter feels the same so if anyone can do it and generate a good profit then good luck to them.
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PDC
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Sorry to the OP that it has gone off topic having thought about it I have decided to remove my most recent reply so that I do not carry on taking it off topic.
scesc
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Thanks to all for the responses on this. There's several good things for me to take away and look at in more detail before Saturdays become something I look forward to again.
Korattt
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.. to go off topic slightly, I would be interested to know the views of experienced traders and their thoughts on how easy (or hard) it is for newbie traders starting out this time of year, in particular these past few months, is there ever a good time (or bad time) to start learning?
spreadbetting
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You'll find lots of traders/punters might not like this time of year due to lack of races,small fields and reduced liquidity in the markets because of the switchover from flat to jumps. But for a newbie that can be an advantage as you won't have races coming at you thick and fast and therefore more time to concentrate, spot moves and fiure out why they're moving the way they do.

Liquidity shouldn't an issue for someone learning either as it's unlikely you'd be using large enough stakes to have problems getting in and out, if anything the lower liquidity should be in your favour.
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JollyGreen
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Korattt wrote:.. to go off topic slightly, I would be interested to know the views of experienced traders and their thoughts on how easy (or hard) it is for newbie traders starting out this time of year, in particular these past few months, is there ever a good time (or bad time) to start learning?
This is a tricky time of year no doubt. I personally think January and February are even worse, especially the period that builds up to the Cheltenham festival.

If you are relatively new then it is harder but to put a positive spin on it, if you improve now, you will find the summer months much easier.

I'm seeing feedback from new traders who are doing really well so clearly it can be done.
oliver123
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If there is one day of the week when you should be making money it is a Saturday? Why? Weight of the money on both sides of the market. You back or lay - don't get greedy - and you will win every time. By the way I am talking about horse racing. Having said that, you can always do what I do and 'snipe' the winner at the end of the race :-)
Abraquay
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So who much did u make today then ?
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Dublin_Flyer
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JollyGreen wrote: I said be selective and as mentioned, it can work but it will not be as profitable as finding larger moves in the market. I see that "some bloke" (nocturnal black and white creature) bangs this drum and says it is better to get six lots of 1 tick scalps than one six tick swing trade. Then you visit his training course to watch him lose £1K trying to scalp the markets.
I missed the nocturnal part of blokes description so I was wondering who the fxxx the Zebra is, or the Panda. Got it eventually :lol: :lol:
Bluesky
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Dublin_Flyer wrote: I missed the nocturnal part of blokes description so I was wondering who the fxxx the Zebra is, or the Panda. Got it eventually :lol: :lol:
I didn't get it either until the other day when I was looking through various sports trading vids on youtube and then the penny dropped.
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