On the verge of giving up

[Bet Angel]

"go and work for betangel as a programmer"

What's so easy about that?

Unlike other vendors, we all trade BTW, as do all the support staff! Best way to understand what is going on and how to implement things. You also get a lot of empathy with customers.

Personal opinion, but I think there is a lot more to be earnt by trading than coding. The Betfair market is measured in billions and you only need a small amount of that to make it worthwhile.

[Squirtle]

I think at all stages we have all felt like we can't make it work but it's now that you need to dig deep as there are lots out there making it work. It may just be one thing that's stopping you. Maybe record a video and pop it up on the board and we can help?

[neeeel]

thanks for all the replies, and thanks to the riddler for taking the time to answer my posts. I have taken some of your advice and am now going to spend the next few weeks just watching the markets and trying to learn. Although they seem random, maybe they arent as random as I think, the price will move for a reason, either people thinking a price is good value, or because of information( eg, horse starts sweating), theres probably other reasons that Im not aware of.
I will also read the blogs that you have suggested.
I know that a lot of my problems are my mental attitude and state of mind, something else I will have to work on.

[GPalmer]

Programming ain't easy, but my days of programming are well over (back in the old MS Dos days with dBase & Clipper.

Winning ways could come Neeel, could be just around the corner. We know there's numerous people making a living doing this (thats what I keep telling myself anyway) so absolutely no reason why you and I (and numerous others) shouldn't be one of them.

Maybe it takes a certain mindset. I'm sure it doesn't require knowledge in horseracing. But who knows?

There's a shed load of advice coming from people here. Clear your head, read & re-read it, I certainly will. And hopefully start again tomorrow afresh and see how it goes.

Good luck

[andyfuller]

Some good advice there Ridler - when you say about the Don't Give Up the day job blog:

Although he should be working even harder and those games he plays need throwing until he reaches his ultimate goal.

What do you mean by 'games'?

[kev]

neeel,
this all sounds very familiar to me.

After watching and studying the markets more carefully recently I finally thought I had it figured out, I could even spot fake trades in the market and opportunities to exploit them.

Yet still todays trading has still resulted in another loss and I seem to have taken a step backwards. One of the things I've realised is to try and time market entry well, however sometimes I haven't been quick enough, so then you end up jumping in when the price has already moved, only to be corrected for a loss.

Other times I've been studying the market saying to myself 'wait for the right time' only to jump in again early in my eagerness to trade the market.

The more I trade, the more I realise my mistakes and I think its just a case of correcting these and becoming more disciplined to be successful at this game (I hope).

When you had the one to one sessions, did this not help you in anyway ?

regards
Kev

[Squirtle]

The markets were rubbish today anyhow, so I wouldn't worry about today. I think lots of people would struggle today.

This is where the forum can surely help everybody? Just some chatter on what you did today, what did or didn't work. Today I couldn't make a damn thing work but still ended up on the day. But a below par day for me. I think my experiance got me out of jail a few times today.

Chin up!

[neeeel]

neeel,

When you had the one to one sessions, did this not help you in anyway ?

regards
Kev

Yes I think they did help. After my second session, I struggled for a bit, then felt like i started to get it, and had a week where nearly every day I made money, and I made a profit over the whole week, which never happened before. The next week though, probably through overconfidence, I lost whatever it was I had for that week, and its been downhill since then. I guess it could have been that even awful traders will have a period where more of their trades work out, but I hope there was more to it than that.

[pt9091]

Some damm good advice in this post! even though I did not start the topic , I have read it as well and wanted to say thanks to all who posted it!

[TheRiddler]

If I make a comment, it is designed so that I can gauge your reaction which gives moi a better understanding about your frame of mind.
I'm not a programmer, not by any stretch of the imagination and so I don't have a clue about that area but like I mentioned above it is there in my post for a reason.
Trading the horse racing markets to their full potential needs discipline but having a understanding about the make up of the market, will allow you to taste the cream. I don't trade golf because I don't enjoy the sport which doesn't allow me to spend the time learning the golf markets.
You can make the vast majority of markets work for you as long as your willing to do the hard work. If your able you can enter a market at any time on any side of the ladder AWARE of what is happening and why. If you trade a market without this grounding eventually the market you profit from will change to a lesser or greater degree and you will be left wondering what has gone wrong. Of course then you will have to adapt but that taste of cream will be enjoed elsewhere.

[bugrit]

One of the oldest and best tools to help you improve is a trading log. A lot of people seem to like recording their trading, but being old fashioned I prefer to keep a written log. What price I got in, what price I got out, a code for entry type, a code for exit type, profit or loss, what I did well, what needs working on.
Review log each day, and each week, review is most important part, gives you clear idea of where your strengths and weaknesses are, what entry techniques work and what doesnt. You can then create a list of areas to concentrate on to improve the following week.
If you are not profitable keeping a log will help you see why, entering too soon? entering too late? chasing an price? cutting too soon? cutting too late? trading with emotion? The list of things you will discover about trading and yourself is endless!
I know of several stock trading mentors who will only take you on once you have kept a log for at least two wks, and will drop you if you stop keeping one!
IMHO a trading log is an invaluable tool to help anyone, profitable or not, newbie or pro.

[TheRiddler]

One of the oldest and best tools to help you improve is a trading log. A lot of people seem to like recording their trading, but being old fashioned I prefer to keep a written log. What price I got in, what price I got out, a code for entry type, a code for exit type, profit or loss, what I did well, what needs working on.
Review log each day, and each week, review is most important part, gives you clear idea of where your strengths and weaknesses are, what entry techniques work and what doesnt. You can then create a list of areas to concentrate on to improve the following week.
If you are not profitable keeping a log will help you see why, entering too soon? entering too late? chasing an price? cutting too soon? cutting too late? trading with emotion? The list of things you will discover about trading and yourself is endless!
I know of several stock trading mentors who will only take you on once you have kept a log for at least two wks, and will drop you if you stop keeping one!
IMHO a trading log is an invaluable tool to help anyone, profitable or not, newbie or pro.

yes writing with pen to paper is more appropriate than typing. It will occupy ones mind to a greater degree.

[TheRiddler]

When you guys above are studying the markets, why not write down (pen and paper) 5 different aspects of that market which you never noticed before. If you are doing things correctly you will be able to do this day after day after day. If you cannot do this because you are busy entering and exiting the market then stop and use your eyes. Because infancy will not allow you to do both at the same time.
Making money is the biggest game out there and you have to know the rules.

[TheRiddler]

When you guys above are studying the markets, why not write down (pen and paper) 5 different aspects of that market which you never noticed before. If you are doing things correctly you will be able to do this day after day after day. If you cannot do this because you are busy entering and exiting the market then stop and use your eyes. Because infancy will not allow you to do both at the same time.
Making money is the biggest game out there and you have to know the rules.

Why not post here your 1st day's learning. Don't worry you will not be giving any secrets away at this stage. It will do everyone good to see others progress and it will also show that you are learning and not just spectating.

[neeeel]

When you guys above are studying the markets, why not write down (pen and paper) 5 different aspects of that market which you never noticed before. If you are doing things correctly you will be able to do this day after day after day. If you cannot do this because you are busy entering and exiting the market then stop and use your eyes. Because infancy will not allow you to do both at the same time.
Making money is the biggest game out there and you have to know the rules.

Why not post here your 1st day's learning. Don't worry you will not be giving any secrets away at this stage. It will do everyone good to see others progress and it will also show that you are learning and not just spectating.

Thanks again for all the great ideas, I will start keeping a written log from tommorow. Not sure what I will write down as I wont be trading, or doing very fewe trades anyway, maybe just note down where I see an opportunity for trading and if it would have come off.

I am not sure what you mean by aspects of the market. I know some of them like volatility, liquidity etc, but I dont think I will see 5 new ones in each market, or maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean by aspects of the market.

I will also post my first days notes, and maybe you can tell me wether I am thinking along the right lines