On the verge of giving up

[neeeel]

I have been trading for over a year now, and dont seem to be getting any better. I have been on the betangel course, and had 2 sessions with a betangel mentor, but they dont seem to have made any difference to my trading, although I think I understand the principles.
The way I feel at the moment, I dont see how it is possible for anyone to make money trading. I think the market is swinging, so I put in a trade, it swings the other way. I think its a good opportunity for a scalp, I put in a trade, the market stays stable for a short time, my close bet doesnt get taken, then it moves in the opposite direction. I have no confidence in any techniques. Bookmaking, dutching, scalping, swing trading, I lose money on them all.
So I am almost decided to give up, but dont like to accept defeat, even tho the evidence is overwhelmingly against me being able to trade.
Does anyone have any suggestions that I can try, I guess thats unanswerable really, its going to take more than a couple of lines on a forum to help me find whats wrong. Has anyone here gone thro a similar stage and come out the other side, finally making money? What did you do that made a difference?

I have seen a couple of books mentioned in another thread, is it worth getting them, even though they are about stock market trading(I think)? Are there any other books people can recommend

Maybe I should just accept that I dont have what it takes?

[TheRiddler]

I have just typed 2 long posts here for both to disappear. Now I'm really PI$$ED.
I'll get back to you but I've been trading whilst typing only for them to disappear. Sickening. Hopefully gremlins somewhere will vanish.
Others will help I'm sure. Funny this one hasn't become invisible. That's life. Whatever you do, don't give up in a hurry.

[BAP-Admin]

I have just typed 2 long posts here for both to disappear.

The session length on these boards is set to 60 minutes. So if you take longer than this to submit a post the system will log you out whilst you typed it.

If you took shorter than this check your drafts (under user control panel).

[TheRiddler]

Thanks admin about the log out time, didn't know about that. Nothing to be found in my drafts though.
I'll try to post when not preoccupied with other activities, but that's easier said than done.

[TheRiddler]

Right here I go again.
You lack confidence because everything you do when trading turns negative.
What type of trader are you full or part-time?
Have you comprehensively watched/ studied the markets you trade?
Are you interested in the markets you trade?
Have you tried to turn losses into smaller losses bit by bit until you break-even?
Is the capital you trade with needed for maybe future projects, in other words scared money?
What was your mindset when you first thought about trading?
When you read other peoples profits do you think wow that's amazing?
How persistent are you?
What in life are you good at already and have you worked out why you are good at it?

These are just a few questions you should have already asked yourself and tried to answer.
I'll continue shortly but I need to logout and then back in again.

[TheRiddler]

To trade well you need to be fully focused on the task in-hand. There is a book out about horse race gambling called Enemy Number One. This book is not about trading but it will hopefully show you what it takes (level of commitment) I believe you need in order to be at the top of your game.
When you read peter webbs profits or adam heathcotes profits and more do you think to yourself wow there on fire, wow how do they do that,etc. or do you think that's great for them but really they should be doing better (no disrespect to either party.)

Your problem is that you don't read the market correctly so your entry point is caught on the wrong side. If you are scalping and you've made your entry and it sits there with big money behind it but the price isn't moving,that is because it has met resistence of some kind, depending on the market you trade. Therefore your lay will be swallowed up and then the market suddenly drops several ticks all at once never to return. Then you panic and exit in a rush and ill-prepared fashion.
Do you use charts at all? Understanding the shape of a market will prevent you mostly from entering too high or too low.
One year does not make a good trader. You cannot throw money at it and expect it to work. If that was the case everyone would follow suit and eventually the markets would be untradable.

[TheRiddler]

Reading the shape of a market is very important for me. Market shape changes from market to market,day to day,season to season and so on. So while there are no guarantees about the outcome, you will feel confident that more often than not you will be right.
Take the horse racing market. If I see the price of a horse to be better value than it should be then I will become a player and not a trader. All of a sudden traders who have been laying a horse for big trades will see several rungs of the ladder disappear all at once and that nice profit they thought they were onto, all of a sudden is red and a deeper red by the second. Then everyone jumps in the other way and if the price becomes too short I'll do the exact opposite. There is a DIFFERENCE between real money,traders money and spoof money.
One day sometime in the future when I decide to retire I will record a full days trading. Who knows some may learn from it, others wil not understand it and some will be pleased but think I(as in me) should be doing better. I've watched other videos but what's the saying
'you aint seen nothing yet'
PS I don'tplan to retire soon.

[TheRiddler]

Also if you aspire to reach the top, I suggest you prepare yourself for a very dull life. That's what many people who know you will think anyway. Sacrifice has to be made and sometimes having a ferrari in every colour under the sun does not make up for it.

As you can see I'm pretty serious about what I do.
And you need to know how serious you intend to be.

[neeeel]

You lack confidence because everything you do when trading turns negative.
yes

What type of trader are you full or part-time?

I have been trading the horse racing markets nearly every day, so was full time i guess

Have you comprehensively watched/ studied the markets you trade?
I thought so, but I guess not, or I would have a better grasp of the markets


Are you interested in the markets you trade?
Not really no, I couldnt care if it was horses, dogs or cockroaches that were racing.


Have you tried to turn losses into smaller losses bit by bit until you break-even?
Do you mean if I have a big loss on 1 race, I keep trading on that race bit by bit to try and claw some losses back? If so, then yes I have managed to do that, but just as often I have made the losses into bigger losses, I guess I need to work on my frame of mind.

Is the capital you trade with needed for maybe future projects, in other words scared money?
Nope, the money is totally money to play around with, but I would still say its scared money even so, my psychological make up I guess

What was your mindset when you first thought about trading?
Wow, that sounds great, really easy, Ill never have to work again!!

When you read other peoples profits do you think wow that's amazing?
Yes

How persistent are you?
Very persistent I would say. Day after day I would have losses, and the next day I would get back up off the floor and have another go, day after day after day.

What in life are you good at already and have you worked out why you are good at it?
good question. I am good at fixing computers, computer programming, that sort of thing.why? I dont know.

[neeeel]

Your problem is that you don't read the market correctly so your entry point is caught on the wrong side. If you are scalping and you've made your entry and it sits there with big money behind it but the price isn't moving,that is because it has met resistence of some kind, depending on the market you trade. Therefore your lay will be swallowed up and then the market suddenly drops several ticks all at once never to return. Then you panic and exit in a rush and ill-prepared fashion.
Do you use charts at all?
Understanding the shape of a market will prevent you mostly from entering too high or too low.
One year does not make a good trader. You cannot throw money at it and expect it to work. If that was the case everyone would follow suit and eventually the markets would be untradable.

Yes I usually have 2 charts up, the betfair chart and a betangel advanced chart, plus the charts on the betangel ladder screen.

The scalping scenario you describe certainly hits a chord with me. People have said things like " when the chart goes into a level line for a time, its a good time to scalp" But I have found this to be untrue, at least for me. It seems like that is almost the worst time to try and scalp, as it means u dont know which way it is going to go from there, so dont know which side to enter on.

[sydneysam]

I have been trading for over a year now, and dont seem to be getting any better. I have been on the betangel course, and had 2 sessions with a betangel mentor, but they dont seem to have made any difference to my trading, although I think I understand the principles.
The way I feel at the moment, I dont see how it is possible for anyone to make money trading.

I feel your pain neeeel.... i've been at it about a year fulltime and know i have to jump a few levels or move on. Staying at the same level of thinking and gradually losing all the time is no good.

The riddler said:
There is a DIFFERENCE between real money,traders money and spoof money.
One day sometime in the future when I decide to retire I will record a full days trading. Who knows some may learn from it, others wil not understand it and some will be pleased but think I(as in me) should be doing better. I've watched other videos but what's the saying
'you aint seen nothing yet'
PS I don'tplan to retire soon.

stop teasing!!

any help will be much appreciated riddler

[GPalmer]

I know exactly how you feel, 1 step forward & 20 steps back. Every day back to the pc, every day doing the same old thing. Every day knowing that even a chimp would get it right half the time but for some reason we get it wrong most of the time. Knowing somehow that it shouldn't be this tough. Knowing that we should know how to do it, knowing that it ain't rocket science.

I also was a programmer which logic and reasoning plays a major part it. I've been told that maybe I over analyse it. **** Knows.

All I know is thats its heartbreaking, draining and depressing.

[TheRiddler]

You lack confidence because everything you do when trading turns negative.
yes

What type of trader are you full or part-time?

I have been trading the horse racing markets nearly every day, so was full time i guess

Have you comprehensively watched/ studied the markets you trade?
I thought so, but I guess not, or I would have a better grasp of the markets


Are you interested in the markets you trade?
Not really no, I couldnt care if it was horses, dogs or cockroaches that were racing.


Have you tried to turn losses into smaller losses bit by bit until you break-even?
Do you mean if I have a big loss on 1 race, I keep trading on that race bit by bit to try and claw some losses back? If so, then yes I have managed to do that, but just as often I have made the losses into bigger losses, I guess I need to work on my frame of mind.

Is the capital you trade with needed for maybe future projects, in other words scared money?
Nope, the money is totally money to play around with, but I would still say its scared money even so, my psychological make up I guess

What was your mindset when you first thought about trading?
Wow, that sounds great, really easy, Ill never have to work again!!

When you read other peoples profits do you think wow that's amazing?
Yes

How persistent are you?
Very persistent I would say. Day after day I would have losses, and the next day I would get back up off the floor and have another go, day after day after day.

What in life are you good at already and have you worked out why you are good at it?
good question. I am good at fixing computers, computer programming, that sort of thing.why? I dont know.

If I were you I'd read the answers you gave to those questions again.
Trading full-time if not accomplished only places added pressure upon your 'narrow' shoulders to perform.

Working for a year will not allow you to have fully understood the horse racing markets you trade everyday. If people have told you otherwise then I'm afraid that's because they don't understand either.
I have invested a phenomenal amount of time and dedication.

If you are not interested in the markets you trade then will you be able to keep your enthusiasm levels high with all the HARD work before you?

Scared money needs to be deposited in the bank, although choose wisely as many are a bit 'dodgy'

Wow never have to work again. this aint no money tree you can walk upto at pluck at your convenience as you're well aware by now. You are going work harder for longer than anytime previous in order to succeed.

Do not dwell on other peoples profits because they are irrelevant to the situation in hand. Look at their profits and the markets they traded to reach those numbers and think, what are they doing correct and what are they doing incorrectly. If you have done the work/study you should be able to work out the limitations and possibilities for each market.

Very persistent but willing to throw your cards at the table after only one year.

I'm chuffed for you that your good at fixing computers/ programming but you need to work out why. Is it because you have a underlying interest in the subject?

It is possible to turn up to an unknown market and trade it but you will never trade it to the best of your potential. You do not have to commit money to a market whilst you learn how that market works, you can watch all the other silly devils do that for free.

Keep your money elsewhere until you have reached a point (theoretical because you will not be committing real money) where you are confident of reading a market. The point I made about scalping rings true because that is what happens everyday in the horse racing markets but because you don't understand these markets, you are fluffing your lines. You claw money back here and there more than likely through chance and then your luck runs out and bang, further in the red.

Have you checked a blog by leonthefixer called 'don't give up your day job' because you should. He's still in early development but his mindset is correct. Although he should be working even harder and those games he plays need throwing until he reaches his ultimate goal.

[TheRiddler]

I have been trading for over a year now, and dont seem to be getting any better. I have been on the betangel course, and had 2 sessions with a betangel mentor, but they dont seem to have made any difference to my trading, although I think I understand the principles.
The way I feel at the moment, I dont see how it is possible for anyone to make money trading.

I feel your pain neeeel.... i've been at it about a year fulltime and know i have to jump a few levels or move on. Staying at the same level of thinking and gradually losing all the time is no good.

The riddler said:
There is a DIFFERENCE between real money,traders money and spoof money.
One day sometime in the future when I decide to retire I will record a full days trading. Who knows some may learn from it, others wil not understand it and some will be pleased but think I(as in me) should be doing better. I've watched other videos but what's the saying
'you aint seen nothing yet'
PS I don'tplan to retire soon.

stop teasing!!

any help will be much appreciated riddler

Have you researched leonthefixer blog very useful.
Do you think I'm going to reveal the way I trade so that everybody can copy it if they so choose? Especially after all the hard work/ frustration undertaken in the past with no outside help.
I will make good on the video though once I'm through with it. Have you watched other videos by traders they are a good starting point although that's all they are.

I will not be posting forever as I'm busy so grab what you can whilst you can. I'll post here and there but if I were you, I'd read over and over again everything I've already wrote, there could be a nugget which may be hidden. I'm expanding into financials to an even greater degree so my work load there is high- as a matter of fact I'm working both the horse racing and financials as I type. Work,work,work and more work.

I will not give up on you but if I don't see your effort then why should I? Write further posts about what YOU are doing to help remedy the situation.

Yes I'm a difficult sod but I'm battle hardened.

[TheRiddler]

I know exactly how you feel, 1 step forward & 20 steps back. Every day back to the pc, every day doing the same old thing. Every day knowing that even a chimp would get it right half the time but for some reason we get it wrong most of the time. Knowing somehow that it shouldn't be this tough. Knowing that we should know how to do it, knowing that it ain't rocket science.

I also was a programmer which logic and reasoning plays a major part it. I've been told that maybe I over analyse it. **** Knows.

All I know is thats its heartbreaking, draining and depressing.

Read all the above as it applies to you too and do not forget it is you and you alone who is making this draining. I'm sorry but you do not over-analyse, you simply do not know what you're doing.
Trading the markets is difficult, if you want an easy life go and work for betangel as a programmer.

I don't tell people untruths, I can be pretty blunt. But is it not better that way.