Coronavirus - A pale horse,4 men and ....beer

[Emmson]

Smart Phones are a wonderful force for good, they can and do capture all manner of evils. Imagine having them when Nazi war machine/death squads were roaming the lands.

[Crazyskier]

Picture sums it up pretty well I think.

Ok, I'll bite. Protest is at the bleeding edge of democracy. It's ugly, violent and there is inappropriate behaviour. But I believe it is almost always valid. Obviously people get hurt. But humans don't subject themselves to danger without a strong motivation.

Nope. You're overthinking it.

There are many mindless sheep jumping on the BLM bandwagon for no reason other than they just want a bit of drama and to flout the lockdown rules and show their disrespect for authority with impunity, while they can.

CS

[Kai]

Pack mentality really brings out the worst in them, it will exaggerate any issue.

[Emmson]

This is the covid19 thread, firlandsfarm, superfrank and Crazyskier who are always mad keen to express their views on politics & the state of Britain have had virtually nothing to say about UK governments handling of the pandemic.

"Bottom Of The Class"

Even the Telegraph are having their illusions shattered.

[superfrank]

This is the covid19 thread, firlandsfarm, superfrank and Crazyskier who are always mad keen to express their views on politics & the state of Britain have had virtually nothing to say about UK governments handling of the pandemic.

Tbf I've criticised the govt's handling of the crisis many times in this thread (starting with their reluctance to do anything at all initially - 9th Mar... viewtopic.php?p=214144#p214144).

[Emmson]

This is the covid19 thread, firlandsfarm, superfrank and Crazyskier who are always mad keen to express their views on politics & the state of Britain have had virtually nothing to say about UK governments handling of the pandemic.

Tbf I've criticised the govt's handling of the crisis many times in this thread (starting with their reluctance to do anything at all initially - 9th Mar... viewtopic.php?p=214144#p214144).

Fair enough you did there.

[superfrank]

Fair enough you did there.

Thanks. For the record I think they underreacted (unforgivable), then overreacted (understandable), and God knows what they're p1ssing about at now.

[greenmark]

The answer is blowing in the wind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG12XQgxkws

[superfrank]

The answer is blowing in the wind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG12XQgxkws

I've always preferred the Peter, Paul & Mary version!... https://youtu.be/33x39rRDGz0

[Big Bad Barney]

But humans don't subject themselves to danger without a strong motivation.

This made me think of a documentary I saw about some white guys trying to get some PNG tribes to grow and pick coffee. I don't recall what it was called.

The tribes were more interested in throwing spears at each other. (I believe a coffee glut compounded problems)...but I don't know if these guys would consider throwing spears at each other dangerous... it could be a case of a spear in my eye socket will never happen to me...just that other guy...

[firlandsfarm]

When you erect a statue in plain view like that it's not to represent history, it's to honor someone.

Agreed but what were they honouring him for? I guess in his case it was for his philanthropy to the city of Bristol. Surely if he was honoured for his contributions to the city and they feel because of the source of the money the city should not have accepted his generosity then they should now repay that money (with interest to represent the benefit all Bristolians enjoyed from slavery). It's the same with the Rhodes statue in Oxford. You can't despise the man and what he did but continue to benefit from his philanthropy. Wouldn't that make them hypocrites?! … You can find something in everyone's past that abhors someone. All I was asking is who decides if one person's abhorrence is justified and another is not?

For me the issue is committing that act without the consensus of the city, but the view that it is offensive is completely valid I would say.

For me it is the reason for the honouring as explained above. The statue should be returned to it's plinth and then a democratic decision is taken for it's future. To not return it, as I believe is the plan, means that mob rule has triumphed and will be quoted by others in the future to justify further acts of mob rule. (BTW they would also have to do something about Colston Hall (demolish it?), Colston's School (close it), Colston Street (dig it up?) etc.) The wrong of slavery and the wrong of the weekend do not make a right.

What are goodie goodie LL's?

Some say "Liberal Lefties" while others say "Liberal Lunatics" … personally I don't see much difference! My definition would be someone who makes rules that make them feel good and then applies those rules to things they don't like but don't apply them to things they do like. The LL's in the weekend's mobs were typical … two weeks ago they were baying for Cumming's head for breaking the CV19 regulations but when it came to them and their mates breaking those regulations over the weekend that was OK!

[firlandsfarm]

This is the covid19 thread, firlandsfarm, superfrank and Crazyskier who are always mad keen to express their views on politics & the state of Britain have had virtually nothing to say about UK governments handling of the pandemic.

Sorry Emmson, I took the reference to "A pale horse, 4 men and … beer" to mean it was also about anything else you might want to chat about. Also it would be rare for me to inject a subject into this thread, more respond to something raised by others … maybe you should have directed your observation their way.

As for comments on the Governments handling of the virus I feel I cannot comment yet, I prefer to have a better picture of the facts before doing so. But, if you want my current draft … people are blaming the Government for what they see as disproportionately high number of deaths but as I have said before the "they should have done this …" brigade never say what should not have been done to free up the resources to do that. Anyone with a knowledge of project management will know it's all about resources. For example if you don't have the required testing resource you don't magic it up from thin air (where was Paul Daniels when you needed him?) you have to try and create it. Critics of the Government (Starmer and Co. being the main one) would have you believe it's all the Government's own decisions, it's not. It's a consensus decision made by the experts and supported by the Government. Just imagine if it came about that the Government went against the scientific advice and it all went wrong … they would be lynched. Another example, all Ferguson was doing in his recent claim was to try and further (or maybe recover) his standing in the industry … "look how clever I was, I told them so". Just assume you were in BJ's shoes and let's assume just for an example that maybe Ferguson was a lone voice saying "do it now" and maybe 10 other experts were advising you "it's OK to leave it until next week". Would your decision be any different than BJ's? I doubt it.

Anyway, I have passed comment on the handling of the virus, it has been as just said … I tend to play devil's advocate to those putting forward what I see as "lightly informed" opinions … I don't know if it has been good or bad until all the facts are revealed and different to those baying for Cummings resignation I don't want resources that are already stretched being further stretched by introducing enquiries into the past until the future is secure. There are already too many amateur Project Managers giving their views on this and as someone with some experience of project management I know resource management is critical and mistakes will be made. Project Management is by definition breaking new ground and it's amazing how many think they are experts in it once a little hindsight has been sprinkled around.

Another area I have a need for clarification is because the WHO did not step in and ask each country to standardise the basis for the figures that are being compared. We don't know if we are comparing like with like. I think it was Derek27 (apologies if not) who raised the point ages ago … are they counting the number of people who died because of CV19 or the number of people who died and have CV19? There's a difference. My understanding is the UK is quoting the number who have died and had tested positive for CV19, the latter definition and more likely the larger figure but even that raised a question … I am not aware of any qualification for "had tested positive". Does it mean "still have" or would it include those thought to have recovered but then died? A good method of calculation would be the number of deaths compared with the expected number, a number we publish but I haven't seen the media quote that number for other countries. For me that would be the best number for comparison purposes but you would need to qualify how they estimate the expected number of deaths … that would be a variable. There are many variables that could skew any comparison … a statistician would classify it as "raw data".

Sorry for the length of this post but you did ask!

[firlandsfarm]

Almost certainly, UK Gold may start finding themselves short of shows it can broadcast.

Don't worry the Beeb will probably do a series of the series' we have banned! (Some may remember they did a radio programme playing the music they had banned! Only the Beeb ).

[firlandsfarm]

Picture sums it up pretty well I think.

Brilliant pic Kai … as you say it sums it up perfectly. The only cause she is interested in is that she gets off by being what she thinks is rebellious. Is it a look of utter contempt or confusion on the policeman's face?

[firlandsfarm]

I don't think I could just stand there all day like these officers have to and let them hurl obscenities and objects at me without getting a strong urge to slap around some of them.

I couldn't stand there all day without getting the urge to pull out a machine gun.

amen to that brother!