Reading the markets more efficiently

[Pinnochio]

Though if there's one thing ive noticed about this forum and the online trading community in general, its that people love this kind of useless generic advice. If anybody tries to point out that the advice may not have any practical use, or in some cases is just plain wrong, they get a loud of abuse for daring to question.

Anyway, ive not got time for this either, ive got a rock to climb back under.

Couldn't agree more, the more and more forums promote trading all being down to 'mindset' techniques the easier it becomes for the ebook sellers to churn out their once in a lifetime offers.

[napshnap]

Personally, I wouldnt be doing it in the first place, i think scalping is an incredibly difficult way to make money trading.

I wasnt having a go at you, I was trying to help you. You see if someone did answer those questions, thats the kind of advice that a newbie could actually learn from and go and try and put into use themselves.

Being told to "see the bigger picture" and to "keep it simple stupid" isnt teaching anybody anything.

Though if there's one thing ive noticed about this forum and the online trading community in general, its that people love this kind of useless generic advice. If anybody tries to point out that the advice may not have any practical use, or in some cases is just plain wrong, they get a loud of abuse for daring to question.

Anyway, ive not got time for this either, ive got a rock to climb back under.

It's understandable, they want to help others but fear to lose their edges. Big bad mental conflict. Very intereting topic for proffesional pshycologists i think.

[napshnap]

Precisely, so why have you contradicted yourself? You said I should be happy to provide my methods, blah blah with the implication I would give away my edge. The knowledge and information I can provide is legitimate and proven but that does not mean the recipient has the dedication to learn it over time and then apply it. Some do, sadly some want it to work overnight and when it doesn't they go back to old failed methods.

My argument was I am not giving away my edge and that remains true. You have taken your own slant on it and just assumed because I am being honest about it in terms of experience and a person's ability to learn it then it is worthless.

Not sure where I've supposedly contradicted myself? I can only guess it's the line

But at least you're one of the few trainers to admit nothing worthwhile is free

Whereby I'm stating that traders selling courses/ebooks/etc never give out any useful info to help others , other than the usual mindset stuff /don't go in running type advice, never a working edge/technique for a newbie to trade the markets. The usual excuse is "much better to learn your own edge as it'll be longer lasting etc" whereas I'd imagine most newbies would be happy have a working technique straight away and find their own later. Whereas you're at least being honest and stating you save that for the paying customers and even then few of them would even be able to profit from it.

Will be great to see their trading sessions live like Peter did with his stream. It will filter "magic pill" sellers once and for all)).

[JollyGreen]

Personally, I wouldnt be doing it in the first place, i think scalping is an incredibly difficult way to make money trading.
.

Scalping defines you as the true idiot you are!

[LeTiss]

Though if there's one thing ive noticed about this forum and the online trading community in general, its that people love this kind of useless generic advice.

I don't necessarily disagree, but you're never going to get successful people simply hand over their secrets for nothing. I'm sure you wouldn't do it, so why would others?

Personally, I think many people's failures in trading lies between the ears. I'm referring to the pyschological aspect, not a lack of intelligence. I've found many things on this forum very helpful, stuff that you would probably put into box entitled 'generic shit'

[Dallas]

Something people should ask themselves is if they where to pay to go on a course and where given the choice of

A) Being shown how to find edges for themselves
B) Just given an exsisting edge

Bear in mind eveyone who takes option B are all given the same one, today and on every future course

[Naffman]

Most edges (well in my case) shouldn't even be called an edge because its a way of thinking, rather than set rules, so it can't really be taught.

[ruthlessimon]

What should I do?

here's some of the quotes/advice from adam heathcote in relation to scalping. i was shocked myself to find scalping was a huge part of his trading; but maybe it was easier back in 2009.

"I think I scalped on two horses to get that result (£135 profit)"

"I look for quick scalps and big swings - it's best for making money no matter what the market is doing."

"I do trade every race (pretty much), even if I don't predict any kind of trend."

"I'm not sure how many trades I average per race. Probably an average of say 10 as mentioned above, probably around 10 trades I reckon, on average. Number of ticks on average per trade I think is about 1 I think, taking into account losses."

"Handicaps. Best advice is to simply scalp them - scalp them with an opinion that if it does go one way, be ready to place your bet in that direction - or double up so you cancel your trade plus one going the way it's about to move."

"I probably say I make a bit more from scalping; well medium term scalps of about 3 ticks. Second, 1 tick scalps, then swing term trading last - but all still profitable for me."

[JollyGreen]

What should I do?

here's some of the quotes/advice from adam heathcote in relation to scalping. i was shocked myself to find scalping was a huge part of his trading; but maybe it was easier back in 2009.

"I think I scalped on two horses to get that result (£135 profit)"

"I look for quick scalps and big swings - it's best for making money no matter what the market is doing."

"I do trade every race (pretty much), even if I don't predict any kind of trend."

"I'm not sure how many trades I average per race. Probably an average of say 10 as mentioned above, probably around 10 trades I reckon, on average. Number of ticks on average per trade I think is about 1 I think, taking into account losses."

"Handicaps. Best advice is to simply scalp them - scalp them with an opinion that if it does go one way, be ready to place your bet in that direction - or double up so you cancel your trade plus one going the way it's about to move."

"I probably say I make a bit more from scalping; well medium term scalps of about 3 ticks. Second, 1 tick scalps, then swing term trading last - but all still profitable for me."

That was almost 10 years ago yes, it was easier in 2009 and remember that Adam and I were trading together at that time. You note he says 3 ticks but says scalp when a scalp is really only 1 tick. When we ran the exchange guidance site markets had moved on and scalping was seriously in decline.

Am I saying zero scalping? No! I am saying scalping should be restricted to the strong markets like Cheltenham, Aintree, Guineas, Royal Ascot to name the strong ones. Then if you find the occasional flat market midweek proceed with extreme caution.

Why would I say that? I am not trading today so I cannot comment on the markets. The biggest problem you experience when scalping is getting an order matched quickly enough. It could be cross matching, it could be Betfair allegedly shovelling to the front of the queue but it can be a right pain in the arse to get reasonable sums matched. Actually it is just as much of a pain with small amounts because you sit there for ages with £700 in front of you, £1500 is traded and you got Nada! It's all relative in terms of order size unless you are using sums out of line with the market in which case you will self defeat your position. With new traders they are doing well and suddenly the last order fails to fill and the market clears off over the horizon. The loss is painful no matter how much you use as we are all different and using different bank sizes.

I cannot be exact about when scalping died a death but it was probably pre 2009 if I am honest. When scalping then, you could join the queue and be matched in less than 5-10 seconds. If it moved against you it was easy to get out. These days it is hard to get in and when you finally manage it and the markets moves against you, it is even harder to get out! I will contact Adam and ask for his thoughts on that blog post. If he replies (he is usually very busy) I will update you.

PS For all the doubters about mindset etc, why not read Adam's blog again and you will see that like me, he was a massive believer in it.

[ruthlessimon]

always love ya posts jolly!

don't worry, I'm not a scalper i was going through heathcote's stuff yesterday to try & get some new insights for my swing models #everylittlehelps

[oscar123]

So why does advising Trader Tom,that scalping, something which according to you died pre 2009,may not be a very good way to go about becoming long term profitable, define me as the true idiot that i am?!

Also i had no idea that you used to know Adam Heathcote. If maybe you had mentioned that before a few times on this forum i wouldnt have dared questioned the true merits of looking at an old photo of yourself in order to help you read the markets more efficiently.

[Pinnochio]

It would be a good idea if we had a list of people whose posts we couldn't query as it'd save a lot of time and stop all these misunderstandings.

[LeTiss]

There are real wind-up merchants on here

Personally, I think this forum has become too serious. The effort that Dallas does to help queries, especially automation is monumental.

However, there used to be some proper funny posters here. This wasn't a forum for political correctness, or clean language. It was a forum for straight talking and humour, not all of it betting/trading related, but we all shared that common interest, hence why we were all here in the first place.

I think the light hearted nature diffused the confrontational nature of struggling traders

[Trader_Tom]

There are real wind-up merchants on here

Personally, I think this forum has become too serious. The effort that Dallas does to help queries, especially automation is monumental.

However, there used to be some proper funny posters here. This wasn't a forum for political correctness, or clean language. It was a forum for straight talking and humour, not all of it betting/trading related, but we all shared that common interest, hence why we were all here in the first place.

I think the light hearted nature diffused the confrontational nature of struggling traders

Piss off you

[JollyGreen]

CBA