Betfair have scrapped the Premium Charge

[CloseBets]

Is there a world where BF could tweak this further in the near future?

Would they be open for more discussion?

for you guys, it does sound a step in the right direction, tho also for BF, too little too late for many i fear. but - still a cause for optimism

Most people who quit cos of PC2 will have found something new to earn a living, can't see it tempting people back to be honest. Good for the newbies coming through as it's a lot better than what we had to put up with and they'll always be new people stumbling across Betfair but does seem too little too late unless they actively start pushing the exchange as it's only losers that ultimately fund us all.

[Driftspite]

Mostly good news.

It does appear bit blunt at the 99K-100K border, it is a shame it does not work on a marginal basis (hope I am wrong).

I also earn 60% from Australian horse racing and my average commission is a lot higher than 2.5%, so I'll get a bit shafted by the 3%->2.5% implied commission adjustment.

The biggest win would be to bring people back to the market.

[Tuco]

So the ‘active week’ clause provides no incentive to people who gave up due to PC actually coming back as they’ll just be on the same rate.

Not sure I get what’ll come of this the more I read into it but hopefully we’ll get a clearer picture early next year when we can compare the volume numbers YoY

...it will take them 52 active weeks of micro-trading to effectively get to a clean slate

[Kai]

A Christmas Miracle for Bet Angel Users

'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the land,
Betfair users were dreaming, of a change so grand.
The Premium Charge, a burden so steep,
Was finally scrapped, bringing joy so deep.

Bet Angel users, with hearts full of cheer,
Rejoiced at the news, spreading far and near.
No more deductions, no more dismay,
A wonderful gift, on this festive day.

The markets were buzzing, with trades all around,
As users celebrated, their profits unbound.
No more restrictions, just freedom to play,
A Christmas to remember, in every way.

So here's to Betfair, for making it right,
Bringing joy to our hearts, on this magical night.
A toast to the future, so bright and so fair,
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a great share!

But alas, joy turned sour, as news came to light,
Betfair had plotted, under cover of night.
The Premium Charge was gone, but you see,
In its place now loomed the Expert Fee.

The Grinch that stole Christmas, a fee so unkind,
Robbing the joy that users did find.
So here's to Betfair, for their clever disguise,
A Christmas surprise that no one could prize.

Merry Christmas to all, with a bittersweet air,
And to Betfair a nod—for their expert flair.

[jimibt]

A Christmas Miracle for Bet Angel Users

'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the land,
Betfair users were dreaming, of a change so grand.
The Premium Charge, a burden so steep,
Was finally scrapped, bringing joy so deep.

Bet Angel users, with hearts full of cheer,
Rejoiced at the news, spreading far and near.
No more deductions, no more dismay,
A wonderful gift, on this festive day.

The markets were buzzing, with trades all around,
As users celebrated, their profits unbound.
No more restrictions, just freedom to play,
A Christmas to remember, in every way.

So here's to Betfair, for making it right,
Bringing joy to our hearts, on this magical night.
A toast to the future, so bright and so fair,
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a great share!

But alas, joy turned sour, as news came to light,
Betfair had plotted, under cover of night.
The Premium Charge was gone, but you see,
In its place now loomed the Expert Fee.

The Grinch that stole Christmas, a fee so unkind,
Robbing the joy that users did find.
So here's to Betfair, for their clever disguise,
A Christmas surprise that no one could prize.

Merry Christmas to all, with a bittersweet air,
And to Betfair a nod—for their expert flair.

and AMEN gpt for this season

[Euler]

So the ‘active week’ clause provides no incentive to people who gave up due to PC actually coming back as they’ll just be on the same rate.

Not sure I get what’ll come of this the more I read into it but hopefully we’ll get a clearer picture early next year when we can compare the volume numbers YoY

...it will take them 52 active weeks of micro-trading to effectively get to a clean slate

Betfair are putting a buffer in and a buffer to when you last paid the PC. I've asked them to update FAQ's for this.

[Kai]

Not sure I get what’ll come of this the more I read into it but hopefully we’ll get a clearer picture early next year when we can compare the volume numbers YoY

Didn't sink in for me either but if churning's now dead wouldn't this be expected to negatively impact volume numbers too

[jamesedwards]

Not sure I get what’ll come of this the more I read into it but hopefully we’ll get a clearer picture early next year when we can compare the volume numbers YoY

Didn't sink in for me either but if churning's now dead wouldn't this be expected to negatively impact volume numbers too

Commission Generated still contributes towards your PC, (or EF I should say now I suppose).

So churning isn't necessarily dead, but it will have to work harder. Half of 2% + half of 2.5% = 2.25% which is still greater than 2%.

That said, I'm not sure if my current churning exercise would any longer be net profitable. I will certainly have to tighten a few attributes.

[Kai]

Not sure I get what’ll come of this the more I read into it but hopefully we’ll get a clearer picture early next year when we can compare the volume numbers YoY

Didn't sink in for me either but if churning's now dead wouldn't this be expected to negatively impact volume numbers too

Commission Generated still contributes towards your PC, (or EF I should say now I suppose).

So churning isn't necessarily dead, but it will have to work harder. Half of 2% + half of 2.5% = 2.25% which is still greater than 2%.

That said, I'm not sure if my current churning exercise would any longer be net profitable. I will certainly have to tighten a few attributes.

Thanks James, my maths is genuinely atrocious.

[jamesedwards]

Not sure I get what’ll come of this the more I read into it but hopefully we’ll get a clearer picture early next year when we can compare the volume numbers YoY

Didn't sink in for me either but if churning's now dead wouldn't this be expected to negatively impact volume numbers too

Commission Generated still contributes towards your PC, (or EF I should say now I suppose).

So churning isn't necessarily dead, but it will have to work harder. Half of 2% + half of 2.5% = 2.25% which is still greater than 2%.

That said, I'm not sure if my current churning exercise would any longer be net profitable. I will certainly have to tighten a few attributes.

Plus, every £ you lose churning reduces your overall profit and therefore might keep you under one of the new thresholds.

[jamesedwards]

Can anyone confirm, by "Last 52 Active Week Gross P&L", are Betfair referring to P&L after commission, (but presumably before PC)?

ie the same values that can be found in the newer P&L page? https://profitandloss.betfair.com/

[SpikeyBob]

Good news, it doesn't affect me though as I haven't paid PC since 2012 (pre off horses from 2008) followed by an 8 year hiatus. Returning in 2020 (football 99% OU's) has been a long hard slog. I doubled my new deposit money within a couple of months only to lose what I had made, plus 60% of my deposit and also my confidence, so have been on low stakes since then. I'll be happy when I actually make the price of the BA subscription tbh. I'm slowly increasing my stakes now as I am profitable again, but even £25K per annum is just a pipe dream for me at the moment.

Here's my last 12 months graph, which shows I'm at least heading in the right direction since the start of this season.

P&L 12 months.png

Gratz to all who will benefit from this in the new year though, hopefully it will bring some of the volumes back to higher levels.

Peace out, y'all.

[Michael5482]

The way I look at the Expert Fee it allows you to keep more money than regular employment paying tax. Government Tax free sum is £12,570, Betfair are giving you an Expert Fee free sum of 25k.

All in Betfair supply a fantastic product in the exchange and they have to charge something to cover costs, ongoing development and maintenance etc

The new Expert Fee is transparent and easier to understand of course some will have issue but for the vast majority it appears a positive change. I don't expect ex PC payers to be coming back in droves especially with affordability but what it all do is hopefully keep existing customers, allow existing customers to flourish without worrying about upcoming complicated PC charges and possibly entice new customers.

Maybe see a flatline of traded money to stop the landslide then Betfair can build further from there. All in all a positive move IMO.

The elephant in the room is affordability checks

[mcfc1981]

From what I can see if you have won over 100k in the last 12 month you are in a worse position.

Example
12 month gross P/L £250K
if you lost 100k before the expert fee comes in you are not going to be able to win back the 100k back before you get charged as you would still be above the rolling 12 month 100k profit.

[jamesedwards]

Not sure I get what’ll come of this the more I read into it but hopefully we’ll get a clearer picture early next year when we can compare the volume numbers YoY

Didn't sink in for me either but if churning's now dead wouldn't this be expected to negatively impact volume numbers too

Commission Generated still contributes towards your PC, (or EF I should say now I suppose).

So churning isn't necessarily dead, but it will have to work harder. Half of 2% + half of 2.5% = 2.25% which is still greater than 2%.

That said, I'm not sure if my current churning exercise would any longer be net profitable. I will certainly have to tighten a few attributes.

Commission churning still works.

Last week I lost £714.28 through commission churning. This created Com Gen of £828.68 and reduced my PC @ 40% by £849.48. So a net gain of £135.20.

If I have calculated correctly, then the same churning activity under the new structure would have created Com Gen of £745.86 and reduced my PC @ 40% by £766.66. So still a net gain of £52.38 and worth doing, despite the changes to implied commission. Plus there's the possible upside of the -£714 knocking me under a threshold in the future.