Betfair Expert fee : Questions

[ilovepizza82]

Maybe Betfair have scrapped all additional charges?

Good.
Coz the only group that benefits these new Premium Charges are traders.
Arbers, value bettors, pro-bettors and everyone else dont benefit this thing at all. Quite contrary.

[Euler]

Just appeared on the account portal

[Euler]

Maybe Betfair have scrapped all additional charges?

Good.
Coz the only group that benefits these new Premium Charges are traders.
Arbers, value bettors, pro-bettors and everyone else dont benefit this thing at all. Quite contrary.

How did you work that out?

[Euler]

Just appeared on the account portal

And gone again

[Naffman]

I’ve got a little buffer from the PC days but how does it work going forward?

Say I lost heavily 52 weeks ago but that week will expire next week so my 52week profit total goes considerably up, will that wipe out the buffer?

[Bog]

Isn't the new tax at a disadvantage for players who have not exceeded 250k profit? If one starts to be in profit from this day, and makes ~120k/year for the next 2 years, he will pay 40%, but with the 'old' premium charge he would have only payed 20% in taxes? Am I wrong?

[Euler]

Isn't the new tax at a disadvantage for players who have not exceeded 250k profit? If one starts to be in profit from this day, and makes ~120k/year for the next 2 years, he will pay 40%, but with the 'old' premium charge he would have only payed 20% in taxes? Am I wrong?

You could flip that the other way, if you earned £99k a year for ten years you would be just short of a million, but still on 20%.

If you earn £120k for two years then you are almost certainly headed for 40% whichever way you look at it. With the old PC you were stuck on it. You don't have to be with the EF.

[jamesedwards]

I’ve got a little buffer from the PC days but how does it work going forward?

Say I lost heavily 52 weeks ago but that week will expire next week so my 52week profit total goes considerably up, will that wipe out the buffer?

I don't think so. These are two different things:

The buffer is the value of negative expert fee you have built up from losses and/or commission generated since you last paid the fee.

Your gross profit from the last 52 active weeks only decides which fee rate you will pay if you qualify to pay EF.

[Bog]

Isn't the new tax at a disadvantage for players who have not exceeded 250k profit? If one starts to be in profit from this day, and makes ~120k/year for the next 2 years, he will pay 40%, but with the 'old' premium charge he would have only payed 20% in taxes? Am I wrong?

You could flip that the other way, if you earned £99k a year for ten years you would be just short of a million, but still on 20%.

If you earn £120k for two years then you are almost certainly headed for 40% whichever way you look at it. With the old PC you were stuck on it. You don't have to be with the EF.

You are correct Peter, in the long run. I think my dilemma was if Betfair will keep the buffer for the first 250K @20%, and after that you can start to pay 40% for the last 52 weeks.

[eightbo]

Could somebody help me understand buffer calculation or progression between weeks?

Last week I had £103.7k buffer, won +£2,600, with £177 paid comms, and next week buffer reduced by -£1,700

Screenshot_20250115-055202.png

On Betfair FAQs they state:

The Buffer is the greater of:
(Commission Generated Since Last Expert Fee Paid / Current Expert Fee Rate) - Gross P&L Since Last Expert Fee Paid
(Commission Generated Since Last Rate Change / Current Expert Fee Rate) - Gross P&L Since Last Rate Charge
*If the buffer calculation is <£0 then we use £0.

Does the phrase "Since Last Expert Fee Paid" = Lifetime for cases where no expert fee has ever been paid?

How about the phrase "Since Last Rate Change" – does this mean profit from now less profit at the active week which caused >£20k to go from 0% to 20% fee ? ...if so, there is no number visible for this

Whenever I run my numbers into the FAQ Buffer formulae I don't get close to my actual buffer.

But overall the dashboard looks quite decent.
If anyone at Betfair is reading this, please get devs to show the user the buffer calculation inputs (numbers used in calculation), and which buffer calculation [of the two potential ones] was used as that would help customers understanding and we won't have to run to customer service all the time.

[Kai]

This will take some getting used to

Thanks for making this thread, very helpful stuff

[Naffman]

I’ve got a little buffer from the PC days but how does it work going forward?

Say I lost heavily 52 weeks ago but that week will expire next week so my 52week profit total goes considerably up, will that wipe out the buffer?

I don't think so. These are two different things:

The buffer is the value of negative expert fee you have built up from losses and/or commission generated since you last paid the fee.

Your gross profit from the last 52 active weeks only decides which fee rate you will pay if you qualify to pay EF.

Thanks

[jamesedwards]

Could somebody help me understand buffer calculation or progression between weeks?

Last week I had £103.7k buffer, won +£2,600, with £177 paid comms, and next week buffer reduced by -£1,700

I wish I could understand it. The calculation used seems to be the below, but it makes no logical sense to me.

Gross P&L last week - (commission generated / fee rate)

2623.79 - (177.45 / 20%) = 1736.54

103,771 - 1,736.54 = 102,034.45

[eightbo]

Could somebody help me understand buffer calculation or progression between weeks?

Last week I had £103.7k buffer, won +£2,600, with £177 paid comms, and next week buffer reduced by -£1,700

I wish I could understand it. The calculation used seems to be the below, but it makes no logical sense to me.

Gross P&L last week - (commission generated / fee rate)

2623.79 - (177.45 / 20%) = 1736.54

103,771 - 1,736.54 = 102,034.45

Thanks. That's more insight than I was able to glean, well done.
More confirmation that still generating high comms is beneficial

[jamesedwards]

Could somebody help me understand buffer calculation or progression between weeks?

Last week I had £103.7k buffer, won +£2,600, with £177 paid comms, and next week buffer reduced by -£1,700

I wish I could understand it. The calculation used seems to be the below, but it makes no logical sense to me.

Gross P&L last week - (commission generated / fee rate)

2623.79 - (177.45 / 20%) = 1736.54

103,771 - 1,736.54 = 102,034.45

Thanks. That's more insight than I was able to glean, well done.
More confirmation that still generating high comms is beneficial

So, the actual equation is (commission generated / rate) - gross P&L.

The lightbulb moment for me was realisation that the new buffer is the value you can win before charges resume, and not the value of Expert Fee credit in the bank.