Racing this month

[PeterLe]

I disagree. They have their limitations, but that doesn't mean that they are useless. For a start, BA has faster reflexes than you or I, and it isn't likely to hesitate because it finds taking a loss uncomfortable.

IMHO, the problem with stoplosses is that people sometimes set them too near or too far from their entry point, or they use them in situations where offering to close would be more appropriate than taking the current price.

Jeff

jeff yes stops are totally useless in horse racing markets users need to find alternative means of risk management

Hi Jeff,
There are lots of examples in the forum and Peter's blog where it has been proven that trading at random virtually breaks even. There is a posting on here that i did a while ago that traded £3-4 K totally at random and produced break even position (or thereabouts).
If you employ stop losses, then mathematically you can only deviate away from a "break even" position, in a negative manner, so why use one??
Regards
Peter

[LeTiss]

Good traders don't need stop losses, they can manage their positions manually

For newbies, who think they are a great idea, I have news for you....they are a disaster!!

There will always be momentary gaps in markets. BA operates with no emotion, or an ability to think on it's feet, it just sees a split second 10 tick gap and BANG!, cuts you out for a disastrous loss

I wouldn't recommend stop losses to anyone, they are up there with letting bad trades go 'in play', as the quickest way for a trader to lose his bank

[JollyGreen]

I have jumped in on the end of this thread so forgive me if I have missed something or repeated something.

I think stop-losses have a place for a novice who lacks discipline and is starting out. It can prevent them from allowing losses to build to crazy levels. However, as Peter Le says they will probably mean a deviation from a break even position.

Once you learn discipline and can close a position without the loss getting out of control then a stop-loss becomes redundant.

As JimRobo said, I also don't know anyone who does this full time and uses a stop loss.

[Iron]

There are lots of examples in the forum and Peter's blog where it has been proven that trading at random virtually breaks even.

[...]

If you employ stop losses, then mathematically you can only deviate away from a "break even" position, in a negative manner, so why use one??

That's not true. If you get a spreadsheet to randomly enter the market with a stop of x ticks and an offset of y ticks, you will get pretty much the same result over 10,000 trades as you would from randomly opening trades 2 hours before the off and closing them at the off.

Stop losses are a bad idea for scalpers, but if you are swing trading and want to use the principle of letting your profits run and cutting your losses, there is something to be said for employing a stop loss to get out of the market ASAP when it turns against you.

Jeff

[Euler]

We should probably put this on a different thread so we can debate different topics separately.

[jimrobo]

jeff you are a stubborn sod!!

Thats 5 pro traders who just gave you some info for free and you still have the audacity to argue black seems white!!

You have to accept that whatever you currently think may be completely wrong and accept something new. Its the basis for being a profitable trader. Learn and adapt! Be stubborn and you will sink!

[PeterLe]

Jeff
I didn't see anything that mentioned offset bets too..but taking this last senario you mention...
Imagine you set a test up that enters the market at random and looks for either a 5 tick positive move (i.e. profit) or a 5 tick negative move (i.e. loss), then over many markets you will be about break even. i.e. at Best you will break even..(i expect)
Using the same senario, imagine you didn't lose a stop loss but you retained the 5 tick positive. I would expect this to do slightly better. If you managed it manually, then even better.
I did lots of these types of test back in 2007 and although the market dynamics have changed in lots of areas, there are still some that hold true today.
Rather than go off gut feel, Why not set a test up?, run two instances at 10 data request and try the two senarios, (You could do it in practice mode so nothing lost). Thats the only way you will know if what you say is true

Here is the test I did a couple of years ago :-

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2285&hilit=reversion#p13782

I doubt much has changed.
Regards
Peter

[mugsgame]

jeff you are a stubborn sod!!

Thats 5 pro traders who just gave you some info for free and you still have the audacity to argue black seems white!!

You have to accept that whatever you currently think may be completely wrong and accept something new. Its the basis for being a profitable trader. Learn and adapt! Be stubborn and you will sink!

+1 = 6

[giulio2010]

I do not want to sound argumentative or too suspicious, but so far I have not seen any evidence that there are professionals in this forum . It 's all based on words. However, it is obvious that there is a lot of usefull knowledge within the members of this forum and that's already more then I could hope for..

jeff you are a stubborn sod!!

Thats 5 pro traders who just gave you some info for free and you still have the audacity to argue black seems white!!

You have to accept that whatever you currently think may be completely wrong and accept something new. Its the basis for being a profitable trader. Learn and adapt! Be stubborn and you will sink!

[CaerMyrddin]

People posting here almost everyday, should be professionals?

Or very rich and bored?


I don't use stoplosses too, except for some rare occasions, maybe one or two in a full week?

[superfrank]

don't use stops either - daft idea in racing markets.

don't use them for any trading. stops aren't guaranteed stops (unless you pay for the privilege with spreads firms).

[James1st]

Vintage car drivers hate seatbelts and advise strongly against using them....


...but try telling a Formula 1 driver thats its a usless piece of equipment.

[jimrobo]

Vintage car drivers hate seatbelts and advise strongly against using them....


...but try telling a Formula 1 driver thats its a usless piece of equipment.

Are you being sarcastic?? Or are you genuinely suggesting here is a direct comparison between driving classic cars and F1 cars and trading on betfair???

[Boing]

I do not want to sound argumentative or too suspicious, but so far I have not seen any evidence that there are professionals in this forum .

Apart from yourself of course! I'm guessing that comment is a joke?

[giulio2010]

So all the people that are posting on facebook suppose to be professional of what? Or very rich and bored? LoL. I did not ask for prove but I feel I can easily questioning some of the claims.
I don't use stoplosses too, If I traded would be in play or hours before the event, it's a suicide if I did use it..

People posting here almost everyday, should be professionals?

Or very rich and bored?


I don't use stoplosses too, except for some rare occasions, maybe one or two in a full week?