Betfair have scrapped the Premium Charge
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Lynskey888
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:51 pm
Yeah, it’s the same for me. The PC page seems to have vanished with the announcement.
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jamesedwards
- Posts: 4116
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm
It seems Betfair are recovering the cost of the new lower charges at the lower and middle tiers through an increase in overall commission collected. Presumably from an assumed increase in overall traded volume, but also from the reduced implied commission rate which moves from 3% to 2.5%.
As a 40% PC payer who profits above £100k per year I will still pay 40% under the new system, and I will in fact pay a slightly higher charge as a result of the implied commission rate reduction.
My last three months:
Gross P&L £48,632
P&L after comm £44,370
Com generated £4,598
PC paid @ 40% £14,855
Net net profit £29,515
Under the new system, if I have calculated correctly, my P&L would look like this, a 1.4% drop in net profit:
Gross P&L £48,632
P&L after comm £44,370
Com generated £4,187 (-£411 due to reduction in implied commission rate)
EF paid @ 40% £15,266 (+£411 due to reduced Com generated)
Net net profit £29,104 (-£411 due to increased charges)
Despite the new structure being net negative for me, I applaud the changes as the previous system wasn't healthy for the long term lifespan of the exchange. Hopefully I will be able to recover the value lost from increased charges with some growth in liquidity from increased volume.
As a 40% PC payer who profits above £100k per year I will still pay 40% under the new system, and I will in fact pay a slightly higher charge as a result of the implied commission rate reduction.
My last three months:
Gross P&L £48,632
P&L after comm £44,370
Com generated £4,598
PC paid @ 40% £14,855
Net net profit £29,515
Under the new system, if I have calculated correctly, my P&L would look like this, a 1.4% drop in net profit:
Gross P&L £48,632
P&L after comm £44,370
Com generated £4,187 (-£411 due to reduction in implied commission rate)
EF paid @ 40% £15,266 (+£411 due to reduced Com generated)
Net net profit £29,104 (-£411 due to increased charges)
Despite the new structure being net negative for me, I applaud the changes as the previous system wasn't healthy for the long term lifespan of the exchange. Hopefully I will be able to recover the value lost from increased charges with some growth in liquidity from increased volume.
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Dublin_Flyer
- Posts: 845
- Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:39 am
Is the UK affordability checks (as mentioned a couple of pages back) not still the big fking huge elephant in the room?
The seasonal Christmas racing and football/Cheltenham/Aintree/Royal Ascot/Darts/Tour de France/Footy tourny punters who used to put 50 or a hundred or few hundred in their accounts for their occasional betting splurge (probably totting up quite a fair bit of market liquidity) are more than likely to say Go Fuck Yourself to affordability checks when they try and make a deposit, and just wander on down to their local Ladbrokes/Stan James etc instead and place their bets there.
The occasional punters like that will more than likely never be even in the realms of the PC area anyway, so it's no incentive for them to comply with affordability checks and start or renew an old BF account anyway.
I can't see it being a groundbreaker or increasing the volumes whatsoever long term. If anything, there'll be a short term spike and then lots of complaining on Todays Racing forum about having very little matched (because everyone increased volumes against each other and ended up in a circlejerk) then it'll plateau out to same as same as.
Apologies for the negativity, but I can walk into the local Paddy Power or Boylesports on my way to work tomorrow and announce it like a new Pope has been announced...BF CANCELLED PREMIUM CHARGE...and nobody will give a shit, they won't suddenly set up a BF account 3 years into retirement or on their lunchbreak from building things, and start lumping thousands into the volumes on either side of the book.
This forum is literally the 1%-2% of gamblers/long term profitable traders that it effects, and people are acting like there's gonna be 500K on every Chelmsford race pre-off tonight and orders filling as fast as you can put them in.
Calm down lads or I'll have to throw an Irish football shirt on you to stop you getting your hopes up!
The seasonal Christmas racing and football/Cheltenham/Aintree/Royal Ascot/Darts/Tour de France/Footy tourny punters who used to put 50 or a hundred or few hundred in their accounts for their occasional betting splurge (probably totting up quite a fair bit of market liquidity) are more than likely to say Go Fuck Yourself to affordability checks when they try and make a deposit, and just wander on down to their local Ladbrokes/Stan James etc instead and place their bets there.
The occasional punters like that will more than likely never be even in the realms of the PC area anyway, so it's no incentive for them to comply with affordability checks and start or renew an old BF account anyway.
I can't see it being a groundbreaker or increasing the volumes whatsoever long term. If anything, there'll be a short term spike and then lots of complaining on Todays Racing forum about having very little matched (because everyone increased volumes against each other and ended up in a circlejerk) then it'll plateau out to same as same as.
Apologies for the negativity, but I can walk into the local Paddy Power or Boylesports on my way to work tomorrow and announce it like a new Pope has been announced...BF CANCELLED PREMIUM CHARGE...and nobody will give a shit, they won't suddenly set up a BF account 3 years into retirement or on their lunchbreak from building things, and start lumping thousands into the volumes on either side of the book.
This forum is literally the 1%-2% of gamblers/long term profitable traders that it effects, and people are acting like there's gonna be 500K on every Chelmsford race pre-off tonight and orders filling as fast as you can put them in.
Calm down lads or I'll have to throw an Irish football shirt on you to stop you getting your hopes up!
The horse race liquidity used to come from on-course bookies who have now largely left/closed accounts.
They pissed off so many, I would bet horse race liquidity (at least in the Uk), never recovers to previous levels.
UK bookies have finally learned that the exchanges threaten their long-term viability. I am now fielding more hedging from other bookies, who know my operation won't feed the money back to Betfair.
The net effect of closing my on-course Betfair account has been positive, financially.
They pissed off so many, I would bet horse race liquidity (at least in the Uk), never recovers to previous levels.
UK bookies have finally learned that the exchanges threaten their long-term viability. I am now fielding more hedging from other bookies, who know my operation won't feed the money back to Betfair.
The net effect of closing my on-course Betfair account has been positive, financially.
Y, mines gone too. Wasn't expecting that.
Did they ever leave? I've always questioned the notion that swathes of people packed it in because of the PC. And anyone who left a few years ago is going to have a hard time replicating the returns they made then
You do wonder what the effect would be if they fully scrapped PC like the announcement implied, how much would the casual players care.Dublin_Flyer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2024 3:47 amApologies for the negativity, but I can walk into the local Paddy Power or Boylesports on my way to work tomorrow and announce it like a new Pope has been announced...BF CANCELLED PREMIUM CHARGE...and nobody will give a shit, they won't suddenly set up a BF account 3 years into retirement or on their lunchbreak from building things, and start lumping thousands into the volumes on either side of the book.
This forum is literally the 1%-2% of gamblers/long term profitable traders that it effects, and people are acting like there's gonna be 500K on every Chelmsford race pre-off tonight and orders filling as fast as you can put them in.
As things stand I think it's mixed emotions for a lot of people, but for about 2 minutes of the initial hype it was quite nice while it lasted
When you saw how giddy with excitement Peter was in the start of the vid and all the previous Xmas teasers goddammit you really wanted to believe in a Xmas miracle for just a moment
And for once you almost hoped BF wouldn't Grinch things up But back in reality I worry those that left eons ago would find the market landscape difficult in 2025? Their edge may have eroded completely by now.
I agree though, healthier to stay optimistic overall but think BF need to do a bit more here, just not sure if there's a world where that's feasible.
My main gripe is still about them killing and suffocating accounts, if this keeps up it's so tough to see the liquidity trends reversing.
There are only so many hoops people can be arsed to jump through.
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Lynskey888
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:51 pm
PC portal now viewable again.
Take your posterity screengrabs.
Take your posterity screengrabs.
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hellothere
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 8:12 am
Can I just clarify....is the PC scrapped with immediate effect or will Betfair still be levying the PC until the Expert Fee arrives in early January? Thanks.
Final PC statement will be up Monday 6th Jan for preceding week; 1st Expert statement will be up Monday 13th Jan for the week 6-12 Jan.... so sometime in between will disappear forever. Also think i read that money will be coming out on a Monday lunchtime rather than a Wednesday.hellothere wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2024 6:46 pmCan I just clarify....is the PC scrapped with immediate effect or will Betfair still be levying the PC until the Expert Fee arrives in early January? Thanks.