Betfair changing the way unmatched bets are displayed
It says it won't effect events where there is a possibility of non-runners of added runners, so does this mean it should have little to no effect on horse racing?
Also for events like football markets how will this change the way it is possible to trade? Is there any way you could post a worked example of any negative or positive effects it will have?
thanks
Also for events like football markets how will this change the way it is possible to trade? Is there any way you could post a worked example of any negative or positive effects it will have?
thanks
Looks like it wont affect horse racing at the moment. Betfair could lose out in markets where selections are added or removed so they don't look keen to run that risk.
The basic concept is that if you offer a back bet up for £5 at 2.00, then a lay bet will appear on the other selection for the same amount. Betfair haven't made clear if this is applicable across selections. I.e. laying 0-0 is the same as backing all other scores, it's possible that it will happen in reverse on these markets as well by the sound of it.
The basic concept is that if you offer a back bet up for £5 at 2.00, then a lay bet will appear on the other selection for the same amount. Betfair haven't made clear if this is applicable across selections. I.e. laying 0-0 is the same as backing all other scores, it's possible that it will happen in reverse on these markets as well by the sound of it.
Betfair comments: -
We’ll be making a change to the way unmatched bets are displayed on Betfair next Tuesday 11th May. The change only affects the Betfair website. It does not affect the API which will remain unchanged, and we therefore do not envisage that any changes will be necessary to existing API applications.
Put simply, we’ll be bringing the display of unmatched bets on the exchange into line with how they are matched. This is probably best explained with a simple example:
If a customer looks to back Player A in a tennis match at 2.0 and the bet is unmatched, we currently only display one unmatched lay bet to other customers. They see that they can lay Player A at 2.0, with no unmatched back bet shown on his opponent. If they did attempt to back Player B at 2.0 or shorter, despite there being no available bet displayed, they would be matched at 2.0. From Tuesday an unmatched back bet on Player A at 2.0 will also be displayed to other customers as an unmatched lay bet on Player B at 2.0. In other words we’ll display all the available liquidity.
We will not be making any changes to bet matching. Bets will be matched as before. We will extend the range of markets covered by the improved matching process though, to cover all odds markets on Betfair, except those markets which may have non-runners (for example horse racing win and place markets), as well as markets which may have runners added (for example golf tournament winner markets, next manager markets etc.)
When we turn the functionality on it will be initially for the range of markets on which we currently match across selections:
Match Odds markets in Basketball, Boxing, Cricket, Ice Hockey, Rugby League, Rugby Union, Snooker, Tennis and Volleyball, Greyhounds win markets, Darts match odds, correct score and handicaps and Soccer match odds, HT/FT, correct score and unders/overs.
Improvement to the display of unmatched bets
As we promised last year, we’re planning to improve the way unmatched bets are displayed to website customers in many of our exchange markets, by reintroducing functionality the exchange had when Betfair first launched. Customers who’ve been with Betfair since the early years will recall that the website used to display unmatched bets in every way that they could be matched. What we mean by that is best illustrated by a simple example: an unmatched bet to back Andy Murray to win a tennis match at 2.0 would be shown in both ways that it could be matched – as an available lay of Murray at 2.0, but also his opponent as available to back at 2.0 too.
We expect to introduce this improvement on the morning of Tuesday 12th May. We will not be making changes to the way bets are matched. This change will mean that the display of available bets is consistent with the way bets are matched.
We’ve tried to answer some likely questions below:
Q: Why are you making this change? What is the benefit for customers?
A: If you put a bet up on the exchange we’ll now display that bet to other customers in every way that it can be matched, giving you a greater chance of getting matched. Customers coming to a market will see a greater range of available bets, and are more likely to find the bet they want at a price they’re willing to take.
Q: Which markets will be affected by this change?
A: We plan to roll this functionality out to all odds markets on the site, except those which can have non-runners (like Horse Racing win and place markets) and those where runners can be added (“Next Chelsea Manager” for example).
Q: Betfair used to have this functionality. Why was it switched off in 2002?
A: The calculation of which prices to display used to be done in our database, and we had to switch it off in 2002 because the site struggled to cope at very busy times. We’ve now found a way to calculate the prices to display that doesn’t involve our database, so we can reintroduce the functionality without affecting the performance of the site.
Q: Is there any downside for existing customers?
A: For the majority of customers, no. Customers who have automated strategies will find fewer riskless arbitrage opportunities, and customers whose strategies rely on offering prices less competitive than would be achieved by placing opposing bets on other selections will also find it harder to match other customers at poor prices.
Q: How will this change affect the performance and stability of the site?
A: We would expect performance and stability to improve. The functionality itself uses a part of Betfair’s system that has spare capacity and so there’ll be no negative impact. However we do have a number of customers who run automated programs on Betfair that continuously look for riskless arbitrage opportunities. Following this change there will be little incentive for customers to continue to develop such applications, so we would expect this to reduce load on the site over time.
Q: I access Betfair via the API. What changes will I need to make to my strategy?
A: You won’t have to make any changes. The available unmatched bets in each market will be represented via the API in exactly the same way they are now. We’re only changing the way bets are displayed on the Betfair website.
We’ll be making a change to the way unmatched bets are displayed on Betfair next Tuesday 11th May. The change only affects the Betfair website. It does not affect the API which will remain unchanged, and we therefore do not envisage that any changes will be necessary to existing API applications.
Put simply, we’ll be bringing the display of unmatched bets on the exchange into line with how they are matched. This is probably best explained with a simple example:
If a customer looks to back Player A in a tennis match at 2.0 and the bet is unmatched, we currently only display one unmatched lay bet to other customers. They see that they can lay Player A at 2.0, with no unmatched back bet shown on his opponent. If they did attempt to back Player B at 2.0 or shorter, despite there being no available bet displayed, they would be matched at 2.0. From Tuesday an unmatched back bet on Player A at 2.0 will also be displayed to other customers as an unmatched lay bet on Player B at 2.0. In other words we’ll display all the available liquidity.
We will not be making any changes to bet matching. Bets will be matched as before. We will extend the range of markets covered by the improved matching process though, to cover all odds markets on Betfair, except those markets which may have non-runners (for example horse racing win and place markets), as well as markets which may have runners added (for example golf tournament winner markets, next manager markets etc.)
When we turn the functionality on it will be initially for the range of markets on which we currently match across selections:
Match Odds markets in Basketball, Boxing, Cricket, Ice Hockey, Rugby League, Rugby Union, Snooker, Tennis and Volleyball, Greyhounds win markets, Darts match odds, correct score and handicaps and Soccer match odds, HT/FT, correct score and unders/overs.
Improvement to the display of unmatched bets
As we promised last year, we’re planning to improve the way unmatched bets are displayed to website customers in many of our exchange markets, by reintroducing functionality the exchange had when Betfair first launched. Customers who’ve been with Betfair since the early years will recall that the website used to display unmatched bets in every way that they could be matched. What we mean by that is best illustrated by a simple example: an unmatched bet to back Andy Murray to win a tennis match at 2.0 would be shown in both ways that it could be matched – as an available lay of Murray at 2.0, but also his opponent as available to back at 2.0 too.
We expect to introduce this improvement on the morning of Tuesday 12th May. We will not be making changes to the way bets are matched. This change will mean that the display of available bets is consistent with the way bets are matched.
We’ve tried to answer some likely questions below:
Q: Why are you making this change? What is the benefit for customers?
A: If you put a bet up on the exchange we’ll now display that bet to other customers in every way that it can be matched, giving you a greater chance of getting matched. Customers coming to a market will see a greater range of available bets, and are more likely to find the bet they want at a price they’re willing to take.
Q: Which markets will be affected by this change?
A: We plan to roll this functionality out to all odds markets on the site, except those which can have non-runners (like Horse Racing win and place markets) and those where runners can be added (“Next Chelsea Manager” for example).
Q: Betfair used to have this functionality. Why was it switched off in 2002?
A: The calculation of which prices to display used to be done in our database, and we had to switch it off in 2002 because the site struggled to cope at very busy times. We’ve now found a way to calculate the prices to display that doesn’t involve our database, so we can reintroduce the functionality without affecting the performance of the site.
Q: Is there any downside for existing customers?
A: For the majority of customers, no. Customers who have automated strategies will find fewer riskless arbitrage opportunities, and customers whose strategies rely on offering prices less competitive than would be achieved by placing opposing bets on other selections will also find it harder to match other customers at poor prices.
Q: How will this change affect the performance and stability of the site?
A: We would expect performance and stability to improve. The functionality itself uses a part of Betfair’s system that has spare capacity and so there’ll be no negative impact. However we do have a number of customers who run automated programs on Betfair that continuously look for riskless arbitrage opportunities. Following this change there will be little incentive for customers to continue to develop such applications, so we would expect this to reduce load on the site over time.
Q: I access Betfair via the API. What changes will I need to make to my strategy?
A: You won’t have to make any changes. The available unmatched bets in each market will be represented via the API in exactly the same way they are now. We’re only changing the way bets are displayed on the Betfair website.
Further to these changes this morning it appears that the 'reversed' unmatched bets are being shown on the Betfair website but not the API. We are also wondering what order these bets get matched in?
We have asked Betfair for further clarification.
Ultimately this doesn't affect horse racing but we will be messing around this evening on markets it does effect just to see what behaviour they exhibit. If anybody wants to let us know of their experiances it would be much appreciated.
We have asked Betfair for further clarification.
Ultimately this doesn't affect horse racing but we will be messing around this evening on markets it does effect just to see what behaviour they exhibit. If anybody wants to let us know of their experiances it would be much appreciated.
I noticed something this evening which does highlight the occassional difference.
I've been trading on Udinese v Milan. On BetAngel the market was 101.3% with the draw trading at 3.40. However, on Betfair it was 100.8% with £450 being offered on the draw at 3.45
I've been trading on Udinese v Milan. On BetAngel the market was 101.3% with the draw trading at 3.40. However, on Betfair it was 100.8% with £450 being offered on the draw at 3.45
Actually, I take back my initial naivety, thinking it wouldn't make much difference. I've noticed something else today, this time on the German match between Augsburg & Wehen. Both BetAngel & Betfair had the market trading at 100.3%, but on BetAngel Augsburg had a WOM of 69%. On Betfair, the WOM was 29%. Sure enough, within minutes Augsburg were backed from 1.44 to 1.42. They then quickly drifted back to 1.50!! Not sure what to make of all this
I think what you will notice is this:
It is for WEBSITE customers, as stated. What the website offers, is on 2 runner fields, the ability to bet any way a bet is offered.
So, if you are backing something at 3.00, it will appear on the website, as a back at 3.00, and a lay of 1.5 on the opposing selection. In Betangel, it will appear simply as the 3.00 back on the first selection.
What you will find, is that API subscribers, only get the data of the actual bet, not actually the new displayed website bets.
How will this effect you?
Well, if you are trading a runner, you may not get to see all the odds available.
Just say you are trading at the previously mentioned 3.00.
Because it isn't favourite, it is a bit gappy, and most of the trading is being done on the fav, at around 1.5.
You try to back at 3.2 on BetAngel, which puts you at the front of the queue. The opposing side of what is available to actually back at, is 2.6, so you also put a feeler bet in at 2.62 on the opposite side.
You are front of the queue right?
Not neccessarily.
While all this is happening, all the people that are trading the favourite, have its price at 1.49-1.5 Back/Lay.
Because they have these bets in, the actual website, will show the opposing bets on the opposite side.
So your 2.62 lay bet that is at the front of the queue in BetAngel, will actually be behind the huge weight of money that is laying off at 3.00 on that selection, which is a representation of the money trying to back the opposite runner at 1.5.
It is for WEBSITE customers, as stated. What the website offers, is on 2 runner fields, the ability to bet any way a bet is offered.
So, if you are backing something at 3.00, it will appear on the website, as a back at 3.00, and a lay of 1.5 on the opposing selection. In Betangel, it will appear simply as the 3.00 back on the first selection.
What you will find, is that API subscribers, only get the data of the actual bet, not actually the new displayed website bets.
How will this effect you?
Well, if you are trading a runner, you may not get to see all the odds available.
Just say you are trading at the previously mentioned 3.00.
Because it isn't favourite, it is a bit gappy, and most of the trading is being done on the fav, at around 1.5.
You try to back at 3.2 on BetAngel, which puts you at the front of the queue. The opposing side of what is available to actually back at, is 2.6, so you also put a feeler bet in at 2.62 on the opposite side.
You are front of the queue right?
Not neccessarily.
While all this is happening, all the people that are trading the favourite, have its price at 1.49-1.5 Back/Lay.
Because they have these bets in, the actual website, will show the opposing bets on the opposite side.
So your 2.62 lay bet that is at the front of the queue in BetAngel, will actually be behind the huge weight of money that is laying off at 3.00 on that selection, which is a representation of the money trying to back the opposite runner at 1.5.
Although, I think at the end of his video he is suggesting that you can't lay at those odds on 3rd party app.
I believe the only issue with BetAngel etc, is that the bet types will not show. If you actually tried to bet at a price where you could be matched better odds on the opposing runner, I believe you would get it?
I believe the only issue with BetAngel etc, is that the bet types will not show. If you actually tried to bet at a price where you could be matched better odds on the opposing runner, I believe you would get it?
Sorry, given the chlidish attitude to us over there I have deleted your last post and the link. I think most will understand why. We don't want the forum to stoop to that low life level so, don't want to start any reciprocation.
Anyhow, thanks for describing the issue, I think most people fully understand what the issue is and how it affects people if not this thread should help. Peter represented our views very early on and Betfair have agreed to change the way this is done so I think Betfair took that on board very quickly. We are just waiting for the change now. Peter's other big concern was who gets matched first.
Anyhow, thanks for describing the issue, I think most people fully understand what the issue is and how it affects people if not this thread should help. Peter represented our views very early on and Betfair have agreed to change the way this is done so I think Betfair took that on board very quickly. We are just waiting for the change now. Peter's other big concern was who gets matched first.
