I was trading a football match last week. Betfair failed to turn the market in play. As per their rules, bets may stand even if the market has not been turned in play provided that no material event has occurred between the start of the match and the placement of the bet (i.e. goal, penalty, red card). I placed a couple of bets backing the home team. Just a few seconds later, they scored. Only just after this was the market turned in play.
So I had, as per my "matched bets" and profit & loss display, a big position backing the home team. I wanted to trade out of this position and go all green, and I did so, by using the trade-out button on app. I managed to lock in a decent profit and the home team went on to win.
After the match, my account was suddenly suspended. Next day, I get told that the back bets would be voided. I was told that I had tried to "sweep" the market, and they said they would void only the back bets. They said the lay - which I only used to trade out of the backs (and I showed this by showing the lay amounts were exactly to trade out of the backs & close position) - would stand. This has left me with a massive red instead of a massive green. I have complained as I think this is outrageous but they insist their decision is final.
(1) I did not try to sweep the markets, I was just fortunate to get matched just before the goal, and (2) I would not have placed the lays if the backs had not been matched - I would not have had a position so would not have placed any closing (lay) bets.
What can I do? has anyone had a similar situation before. I don't see how what they have done can be allowed, they should either allow all bets to stand or void all bets. Can anyone suggest a course of action?
How Betfair Cheated Me. What can I do?
I would contact [email protected] and explain to them and if not satified with there explaniation/resolution inform them your taking the matter to IBAS
Its a term used in financial markets and the first time ive heard of a sports exchange use it so it anyones guess at what BF's interpretation of it is.LeTiss 4pm wrote:I've never even heard of that term 'sweeping the market'
What do they mean by that, and how do they define it?
Theres lots to discuss here.
Betfair have thousands of markets to monitor, and .. I am learning, the platform wasnt really designed for 'in-running', which makes things at times tricky.
They do have some duty of care ..
A few yrs ago, 'associates' would regularly lay horses that were slowly away, or didnt start, in the split seconds before the market was turned from Pre-in-play, to in-play.
Trades were routinely told, their sweeping of bets, were void, and their accounts would be terminated, if they continued the behaviour.
I think a fair amount depends on .. what u mean a few bets. I dont think u are being entirely honest .. a few bets, wouldnt incur massive greens or reds .. So, I am assuming, the size of the bets are what most people, would deem, material.
If I am wrong, I apologise.
My advice, is to swallow .. hard .. and apologise.
If u are a PC payer .. its really immaterial. If u are just a casual non-PC payer .. I might have another opinion.
Betfair have thousands of markets to monitor, and .. I am learning, the platform wasnt really designed for 'in-running', which makes things at times tricky.
They do have some duty of care ..
A few yrs ago, 'associates' would regularly lay horses that were slowly away, or didnt start, in the split seconds before the market was turned from Pre-in-play, to in-play.
Trades were routinely told, their sweeping of bets, were void, and their accounts would be terminated, if they continued the behaviour.
I think a fair amount depends on .. what u mean a few bets. I dont think u are being entirely honest .. a few bets, wouldnt incur massive greens or reds .. So, I am assuming, the size of the bets are what most people, would deem, material.
If I am wrong, I apologise.
My advice, is to swallow .. hard .. and apologise.
If u are a PC payer .. its really immaterial. If u are just a casual non-PC payer .. I might have another opinion.
I take it you backed the team after they scored even thou it wasn't turned inplay, tough one to call, i think all bets should be void from when the market went inplay untill the goal was scored, it wouldn't be fair on the people that had lay bets.
I think we would all need a bit more information? It would be a surprise if Betfair voided one set of the bets but not the other. We have seen this on racing where a market isn't turned inplay correctly or similar so perhaps that is the case here?
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convoysur-2
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govna
im sorry to hear of your loss.
you sound like you know what your doing.betfair can be assholes,
but reading your post it sounds like betfair are pissed of with you.have you had problems with them before,?and i see you have never posted here before (welcome) have you been banned from there forum?or asked about this on betfair forum.(some people on here are banned from posting on betfair forum ,not being a smart ass .but are you telling us the whole story.u came from nowhere with this story .im thinking there must be more to it
Marc
im sorry to hear of your loss.
you sound like you know what your doing.betfair can be assholes,
but reading your post it sounds like betfair are pissed of with you.have you had problems with them before,?and i see you have never posted here before (welcome) have you been banned from there forum?or asked about this on betfair forum.(some people on here are banned from posting on betfair forum ,not being a smart ass .but are you telling us the whole story.u came from nowhere with this story .im thinking there must be more to it
Marc
Well hard to believe that betfair did wrong , im sure they had their reasons for what they did , especially when they void bets cause the lack of suspension during a goal
i ve been in similar situations many times during my years of trading and always betfair void the bets of people hoover-sweep the market after a goal (in my case anyway ), sometimes i call them and explain to them that i got matched after a goal and the suspend was way too late after the goal been scored with the result of me been in a massive red cause i always have money laying around on back and lay sides what they do is immediately suspend the market and check the timing of the bets placed vs the goal been scored and void bets accordingly.
all of my bets matched before the goal they stand they just void those short time seconds after the goal scored
i ve been in similar situations many times during my years of trading and always betfair void the bets of people hoover-sweep the market after a goal (in my case anyway ), sometimes i call them and explain to them that i got matched after a goal and the suspend was way too late after the goal been scored with the result of me been in a massive red cause i always have money laying around on back and lay sides what they do is immediately suspend the market and check the timing of the bets placed vs the goal been scored and void bets accordingly.
all of my bets matched before the goal they stand they just void those short time seconds after the goal scored
In answer to some questions on this thread:
1. By sweeping the market they seemed to imply that I had deliberately tried to take advantage of other customers by betting after the goal when the market wasn't in play.
2. I can't post on BF forum
3. The stakes were quite large for the two back bets, but not that far out of line from what I place regularly.
I have had several email exchanges and they won't budge. Just wanted to get some opinions on whether what they have done could possibly be considered within the rules, and what I could do next. I consistently showed that all the lay bets were to trade out of the back bets, but they said something along the lines of 'for customers who we deemed have swept the market, we do not take trading into account and only void the bets which have been unfairly matched' - i.e. the back bets. Now I argued that when laying I was only closing out existing positions, and if the back bets were not valid (I had every reason to believe they were valid because they were shown as matched and reflected in my p&l display) then there would have been no position to close and no lay bets.
I also asked what they would have done if the home team had lost the match after I had traded out, and they refused to provide an answer.
1. By sweeping the market they seemed to imply that I had deliberately tried to take advantage of other customers by betting after the goal when the market wasn't in play.
2. I can't post on BF forum
3. The stakes were quite large for the two back bets, but not that far out of line from what I place regularly.
I have had several email exchanges and they won't budge. Just wanted to get some opinions on whether what they have done could possibly be considered within the rules, and what I could do next. I consistently showed that all the lay bets were to trade out of the back bets, but they said something along the lines of 'for customers who we deemed have swept the market, we do not take trading into account and only void the bets which have been unfairly matched' - i.e. the back bets. Now I argued that when laying I was only closing out existing positions, and if the back bets were not valid (I had every reason to believe they were valid because they were shown as matched and reflected in my p&l display) then there would have been no position to close and no lay bets.
I also asked what they would have done if the home team had lost the match after I had traded out, and they refused to provide an answer.
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spreadbetting
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Hard to see Betfair budging as I imagine they'd have refunded the original layers of your bets especially if we're talking seconds between bet and goal. In an inrunning situation those players would have been protected by the long in play delay so hardly surprising they'd have got a refund.
The trouble with Betfair's rules are that they overlap on so many occasions they can pretty much quote their regs to cover any situation they want. A lot will depend on your account history , size of bets , style of play etc as to how they preceed.
I've had relatively large 'goodwill' payments where they've messed up on inrunning horse race markets in the past but I did have to go thru quite a few people to get those. Never accept your first reply from customer services as you're lucky if they even address the point, make sure you get as high as the managers if you want to continue to press for it.
The trouble with Betfair's rules are that they overlap on so many occasions they can pretty much quote their regs to cover any situation they want. A lot will depend on your account history , size of bets , style of play etc as to how they preceed.
I've had relatively large 'goodwill' payments where they've messed up on inrunning horse race markets in the past but I did have to go thru quite a few people to get those. Never accept your first reply from customer services as you're lucky if they even address the point, make sure you get as high as the managers if you want to continue to press for it.
Of course I didn't accept my first reply from customer services. I complained to my account manager several times but continually got the same response.
Yes, it seems outrageous that they can allow the lay bets to stand. Like I said, I would not have had a position to close out, and therefore would not have placed any lay bets, if the back bets had not been shown as matched.
Where do you think from here, in terms of taking things forward?
Yes, it seems outrageous that they can allow the lay bets to stand. Like I said, I would not have had a position to close out, and therefore would not have placed any lay bets, if the back bets had not been shown as matched.
Where do you think from here, in terms of taking things forward?