Taking the plunge.. Advice Needed!!

[Rstrach]

Morning All,

A while back i made a few posts regarding my financing trading and my thoughts on going full time. After a few months savings and luckily stumbling into a small fortune through a scam email (no really!!) i am taking the plunge to full time. A few things are putting me off at the moment however! I am finding my days consistent but i feel i am having to work harder and smarter to achieve my profits?? Is this a sign of the markets changing or my technique failing me - who knows. Another main point for me is at a mere 20 i am having doubters, my family think i am a compulsively lucky gambler they simply wont see there is a sustainable no-to low risk method to trade sports market and this is actually having a real effect on me and my trading. Any recommendations to help me through as this is 100% my goal to do full time. I have the market sense and the right determination and time management to do well i just don't want to let my family see me as a drop out.

I always appreciate the feedback i get on here and i'm sure you guys will help me through again! Cheers

[iambic_pentameter]

I'm not full time yet but my thoughts:

1) I think the fact you are young is an advantage - if it doesn't work out, then at least you've tried and you've got time to explore other avenues.

2) I can relate to having doubters - the best advice here is to not worry too much about what they think. Based on conversations with other full time traders and what I've read on here, you are damned either way. At the moment, they doubt you but when you make it, they'll no doubt want a slice of the winnings.

3) I'm not sure what your financial circumstances are but if you can afford to do it, then why not. I think LeTiss has posted a number of times about how he started ie he had a decent amount of money saved which is excellent advice.

4) I think in terms of consistency, that comes through experience and discipline - let's not forget a lot of people take 2 or 3 years to get to full time and then, they are never resting on their laurels because they are refining existing strategies and looking for new angles.

Best of luck with it.

Iambic

[LeTiss]

Going self-employed changes your mindset completely.

When I was working full-time and simply doing this as a sideline, I was more brazen and aggressive in the markets - if it went tits up, I get paid again on the 28th, so who cares!

When you're doing this as a sole income, you cannot afford to make reckless, rash decisions. Your BF bank is there to earn you money, so you mustn't eat into it to pay for food and bills, as next month you're buggered due to having a smaller trading bank

We keep talking here about psychology being a critical part of success, and being self-employed changes ones psychology

[Bluesky]

There is a post on this site somewhere by a pro trader user name Mugsgame that used to post a lot on here. I'm not even going to try and find it for you as he made so many posts It would take me hours to do so. Perhaps someone who knows the post I am referring to remembers the post and can link you to it.

In the post he highlighted many of the down sides to being a professional trader, lots of people talk about the up sides, the financial freedom, being your own boss etc, but in his post he mentioned several other things. I think you should read it, if someone can find it for you or if you fancy looking for it yourself.

From memory he mentions problems he had with his family and friends, the doubts they had then the jealously he got from them when they became aware of the money he was making.

Being your age does have many advantages as a previous poster mentioned, I would probably make sure you had a back up plan if for whatever reason you decide full time trading is not for you. If you have not already got a higher education qualification, or a trade qualification then I would recommend getting one. If you live near a largish town or city then you should be able to gain these qualifications in the evening or one day a week (it will take a long time). This will allow you to continue to trade full time, but give you another interest and allow to meet other people and at the same time could provide a back up for you if you give up the trading. It might also help show your family and friends that you have all the angles covered.

[Rstrach]

I'm not full time yet but my thoughts:

1) I think the fact you are young is an advantage - if it doesn't work out, then at least you've tried and you've got time to explore other avenues.

2) I can relate to having doubters - the best advice here is to not worry too much about what they think. Based on conversations with other full time traders and what I've read on here, you are damned either way. At the moment, they doubt you but when you make it, they'll no doubt want a slice of the winnings.

3) I'm not sure what your financial circumstances are but if you can afford to do it, then why not. I think LeTiss has posted a number of times about how he started ie he had a decent amount of money saved which is excellent advice.

4) I think in terms of consistency, that comes through experience and discipline - let's not forget a lot of people take 2 or 3 years to get to full time and then, they are never resting on their laurels because they are refining existing strategies and looking for new angles.

Best of luck with it.

Iambic

Thanks for the reply lambic, ill keep you posted with how it goes and as always have written down your points and username to not forget what someone way more experienced tells me.

Cheers

[Rstrach]

Going self-employed changes your mindset completely.

When I was working full-time and simply doing this as a sideline, I was more brazen and aggressive in the markets - if it went tits up, I get paid again on the 28th, so who cares!

When you're doing this as a sole income, you cannot afford to make reckless, rash decisions. Your BF bank is there to earn you money, so you mustn't eat into it to pay for food and bills, as next month you're buggered due to having a smaller trading bank

We keep talking here about psychology being a critical part of success, and being self-employed changes ones psychology

Le Tiss, many thanks for reply. I am going to think long and hard about the psychology aspect of what you discussed, my father was at one point a compulsive gambler therefore he thinks he knows it all. We dont get on and i look forward to detaching all negativity and taking it on i have a couple of trades behind me due to leaving school at 15 and work offshore therefore contacts i have made i could easily go back if it all goes wrong. I will stay in touch.

Regards

[Rstrach]

There is a post on this site somewhere by a pro trader user name Mugsgame that used to post a lot on here. I'm not even going to try and find it for you as he made so many posts It would take me hours to do so. Perhaps someone who knows the post I am referring to remembers the post and can link you to it.

In the post he highlighted many of the down sides to being a professional trader, lots of people talk about the up sides, the financial freedom, being your own boss etc, but in his post he mentioned several other things. I think you should read it, if someone can find it for you or if you fancy looking for it yourself.

From memory he mentions problems he had with his family and friends, the doubts they had then the jealously he got from them when they became aware of the money he was making.

Being your age does have many advantages as a previous poster mentioned, I would probably make sure you had a back up plan if for whatever reason you decide full time trading is not for you. If you have not already got a higher education qualification, or a trade qualification then I would recommend getting one. If you live near a largish town or city then you should be able to gain these qualifications in the evening or one day a week (it will take a long time). This will allow you to continue to trade full time, but give you another interest and allow to meet other people and at the same time could provide a back up for you if you give up the trading. It might also help show your family and friends that you have all the angles covered.

Thanks very much Bluesky,

Look forward to finding the post. I have always wondered the true sides not sugar coated about going solo! The loneliness i can imagine but my friends are all supportive its just getting family on side. Hope to hear from you again and keep in touch on the journey,

Cheers.

[Westerner]

A few big questions you need to answer before going full time...

1. Is your edge big enough to deal with 40/50/60% in Betfair Premium charges?
2. Have you got a track record of consistent winning months?
3. How much have you saved as a trading bank? Do you have at least 6 months wages put aside to fall back on?

If the answer is no to any of the above, now is probably not the time.

If the answer is yes, then as long as you have planned your path, have goals, discipline and perseverance you have a shot.

Good luck.

[LeTiss]

I've posted this before about the finances of being self-employed, but this was my take at the time

It was June 2008, and I had been made redundant from my sales job in the construction industry, where the credit crunch had bitten us hard. I was disillusioned, but thanks to my redundancy package and savings, I wasn't skint. I was making money from this part-time, so I thought......what the hell, you only live once - if I don;t take the plunge and try it full-time, I'll regret it. 9 years later, I'm still here........a greying and angry middle aged man

However, at the time I wanted £1500 per month to cover all my expenses - my flat, food, bills, Sky, socialising etc. I wanted to give myself 6 months to see if I could make this work, so I placed £9000 into my current account, as that meant I was financially sorted for 6 months. I also looked at BF and thought making an average of 1% of my bank each day was more than attainable - to make £1500, I needed 30 days of £50, and to make 1% I therefore needed a bank of £5000

That was what I considered to be my self-employed figure = £14000. My bank account dropped to £6150 during those initial months, but I quickly restored the £9000, and I've never looked back.

That all seems a bit basic and restrictive now, but I managed to pull it off

[Rstrach]

I've posted this before about the finances of being self-employed, but this was my take at the time

It was June 2008, and I had been made redundant from my sales job in the construction industry, where the credit crunch had bitten us hard. I was disillusioned, but thanks to my redundancy package and savings, I wasn't skint. I was making money from this part-time, so I thought......what the hell, you only live once - if I don;t take the plunge and try it full-time, I'll regret it. 9 years later, I'm still here........a greying and angry middle aged man

However, at the time I wanted £1500 per month to cover all my expenses - my flat, food, bills, Sky, socialising etc. I wanted to give myself 6 months to see if I could make this work, so I placed £9000 into my current account, as that meant I was financially sorted for 6 months. I also looked at BF and thought making an average of 1% of my bank each day was more than attainable - to make £1500, I needed 30 days of £50, and to make 1% I therefore needed a bank of £5000

That was what I considered to be my self-employed figure = £14000. My bank account dropped to £6150 during those initial months, but I quickly restored the £9000, and I've never looked back.

That all seems a bit basic and restrictive now, but I managed to pull it off

SImilar model to what i would be employing myself LeTiss, it is restrictive because of confidence issues no doubt and stepping to the unknown is understandably scary.. but by meeting targets and self assurance after the first few months i assume its second nature and not as daunting. Having that buffer in the bank will help to. I have a lot of assets i have just used a large influx of funds to pay off - i.e paid off car, reduced mortgage payments, cleared all debts so although my balance doesn't reflect that buffer my worth will. I am interested to also know.. do you find it more challenging now than then to increase your bank day by day or the opposing?

Thanks again pal

[Anna List]

I thought that I'd add my thoughts too.

Firstly, I think that age is a disadvantage in a lot of things - but not in the trading/gambling world. There I see it as an advantage. With age, comes wisdom (and also senility by the way).

You are obviously affected by what your family/friends/acquaintances think about how you intend to earn a living. It is obviously having an affect because you are posting on here.

At my age, I couldn't give a flying fart what others think. It's my life. I'm the one that suffers the consequences if I get it wrong, not them, and, on that basis, what I do with my life is my choice, not theirs. I have acquired experience through doing, my years on this planet and the help and guidance from those older and more experienced when I was younger. You, on the other hand, have only a little experience (no disrespect), due to your age.

That said, I don't tell my (now) neighbours that I gamble for a living. I made that mistake in the past and suffered the consequences from the narrow-minded, inconsequential little twa*s that were my ex-neighbours. Oh yes, venom indeed. I tell my new neighbours that I'm a self-employed Quant. No -
I said QUANT. They now nod sagely in approval - not having the faintest idea of what one is nor of what one does but not asking lest they be thought fools.

You might consider talking to others that you are sure have your best interests at heart and getting their take on the matter. However, be aware that everyone has their own agenda. When some people are telling you what you should do, they are actually telling you what they would do in your position. There's also those who don't want to see you become successful, because, they consider themselves failures and seeing you become successful would just make their plight seem worse.

I'm not going to tell you what to do. I don't know you. And, even if I did, I probably wouldn't. What I would say is that you may need to consider developing a thicker skin if you want to earn a living from trading/gambling. This game can be cruel at times and I've seen it ruin quite a few lives. If you let what others think have too much of an effect on you, maybe you aren't emotionally ready yet? Maybe you should give it a couple of years? After all, you have age on your side.

Someone once said to me: "If you can't handle the worst possible outcome of what you are about to do, don't do it.

Whatever you do, good luck.

Anna

[Rstrach]

I thought that I'd add my thoughts too.

Firstly, I think that age is a disadvantage in a lot of things - but not in the trading/gambling world. There I see it as an advantage. With age, comes wisdom (and also senility by the way).

You are obviously affected by what your family/friends/acquaintances think about how you intend to earn a living. It is obviously having an affect because you are posting on here.

At my age, I couldn't give a flying fart what others think. It's my life. I'm the one that suffers the consequences if I get it wrong, not them, and, on that basis, what I do with my life is my choice, not theirs. I have acquired experience through doing, my years on this planet and the help and guidance from those older and more experienced when I was younger. You, on the other hand, have only a little experience (no disrespect), due to your age.

That said, I don't tell my (now) neighbours that I gamble for a living. I made that mistake in the past and suffered the consequences from the narrow-minded, inconsequential little twa*s that were my ex-neighbours. Oh yes, venom indeed. I tell my new neighbours that I'm a self-employed Quant. No -
I said QUANT. They now nod sagely in approval - not having the faintest idea of what one is nor of what one does but not asking lest they be thought fools.

You might consider talking to others that you are sure have your best interests at heart and getting their take on the matter. However, be aware that everyone has their own agenda. When some people are telling you what you should do, they are actually telling you what they would do in your position. There's also those who don't want to see you become successful, because, they consider themselves failures and seeing you become successful would just make their plight seem worse.

I'm not going to tell you what to do. I don't know you. And, even if I did, I probably wouldn't. What I would say is that you may need to consider developing a thicker skin if you want to earn a living from trading/gambling. This game can be cruel at times and I've seen it ruin quite a few lives. If you let what others think have too much of an effect on you, maybe you aren't emotionally ready yet? Maybe you should give it a couple of years? After all, you have age on your side.

Someone once said to me: "If you can't handle the worst possible outcome of what you are about to do, don't do it.

Whatever you do, good luck.

Anna

Thanks for your reply Anna,

Really good read and insight. From some other posts i have sen you are a layer? Im also big into this and most of my trades are lay to back. Would love to chat with you about the techniques youve tried and tested and your highs and lows along the way! Nothing i can do but take all the knowledge in from the bast array of members all with different stories to tell about their self employed career. As to the point with thicker skin i would agree to an extent but only as i love them and so on but at the end of the day would never let them obscure my goals or how i tend to reach them. At 20 i have a lot to learn and have seen it go wrong end up for a few family members with gambling but for me i have no emotinal attachment to my cash its simply the green that funds my life and adventures so think ill manage better. Many thanks again for your response.

All the best

Ross

[poklius]

I've been full timer since 2009, so I though I'd drop quick advice, don't do it! But seriously, starting in before PC was very easy. I've lost my job in 2008 recession, had a few months of savings, I was 22. Not much to lose, so I started trading preoff horses with 15E bank, lost it, deposited another 15Eur, and in 2-4months I was making at least double my salary from previous job. But again markets were easy back then, no premium charge, future is bright blah blah. At the moment markets are full of bots, machine learning algorithms, bf has dropped of most European countrys, its dying business, things are just getting harder and worse every year. Without serious sports or coding knowledge you'll be lost, just another fish in massive shark pond...

[Rstrach]

I've been full timer since 2009, so I though I'd drop quick advice, don't do it! But seriously, starting in before PC was very easy. I've lost my job in 2008 recession, had a few months of savings, I was 22. Not much to lose, so I started trading preoff horses with 15E bank, lost it, deposited another 15Eur, and in 2-4months I was making at least double my salary from previous job. But again markets were easy back then, no premium charge, future is bright blah blah. At the moment markets are full of bots, machine learning algorithms, bf has dropped of most European countrys, its dying business, things are just getting harder and worse every year. Without serious sports or coding knowledge you'll be lost, just another fish in massive shark pond...

Thanks for your optimisim....

maybe you've just fallen out of love? as ive said i can make consistent money so i really wanna give it a go and that was not a dig as i value all inputs!

Cheers

[Anna List]

Thanks for your reply Anna,

Really good read and insight. From some other posts i have sen you are a layer? Im also big into this and most of my trades are lay to back. Would love to chat with you about the techniques youve tried and tested and your highs and lows along the way! Nothing i can do but take all the knowledge in from the bast array of members all with different stories to tell about their self employed career. As to the point with thicker skin i would agree to an extent but only as i love them and so on but at the end of the day would never let them obscure my goals or how i tend to reach them. At 20 i have a lot to learn and have seen it go wrong end up for a few family members with gambling but for me i have no emotinal attachment to my cash its simply the green that funds my life and adventures so think ill manage better. Many thanks again for your response.

All the best

Ross

Just PM'd you.