Hi All
I am amazed that with all this information available now with trading and using software the majority of people are losing. You can find many posts on this forum and other forums all sounding the same tune. Lost my bank / still losing after a few years of learning etc.
To my mind something is not right, that there are so many casualties after doing all the preparation and education that one would think is needed.
How many posts have you read of people spending significant amounts of money and somehow trying to convince themselves that it's all good feeling happy because they are making 20p per race or something ridiculous.
Have observed one trader many times and his mantra is to lay at the bottom of the range. On the you tube videos it always either goes his way or if it dips the trade comes back. Yet the amount of times i have placed a lay bet at the bottom of the range and it has crashed through and not recovered is amazing.
Regards
ubetido
online Courses / Books / Ebooks / Videos Master classes
Because not everyone can win, everyone providing you with advice is also potentially a direct competitor once you both enter the same market.ubetido wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:19 amHi All
I am amazed that with all this information available now with trading and using software the majority of people are losing. You can find many posts on this forum and other forums all sounding the same tune. Lost my bank / still losing after a few years of learning etc.
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cybernet69
You don't just stick a lay trade at the bottom of the range and hope for the best. Like everything, you need a reason to do it in the first place and believe there will be some kind of retrace. You wait until there is a build up of money on the other side near the bottom, wait for price action, scratch, get out or take a profit.
Look for on-course bookies money coming in during the final minutes or seconds, if it doesn't come then don't trade unless you have another reason too.
Also, how big is the selections trading range. If its tight then less chance of it blowing through your lay trade. If its wide then more likely to zoom past.
Each market of the same type will not always be traded the same.
Don't enter a market for the sake of it. If you don't trade then you can't win but more importantly you can lose either.
Protecting you bank is the most important rule.
Look for on-course bookies money coming in during the final minutes or seconds, if it doesn't come then don't trade unless you have another reason too.
Also, how big is the selections trading range. If its tight then less chance of it blowing through your lay trade. If its wide then more likely to zoom past.
Each market of the same type will not always be traded the same.
Don't enter a market for the sake of it. If you don't trade then you can't win but more importantly you can lose either.
Protecting you bank is the most important rule.
90% of the stuff I see about trading is completely wrong. I've given up arguing about it TBH. I've spent so much time and effort researching ever nuance in the market in terms of how it is priced and trades which shows up in my results. But I suspect a lot of advice is just copied from people who have copied from people and ends up far removed from what the original advice intended.
I saw a brilliant video recently which was wrong from start to finish, everything about it was completely and utterly wrong. It was eventually deleted but I kept a copy to show people what not to do and why.
Laying at the bottom of the range just because it's at the bottom of the range doesn't really achieve much. You need a reason to do that.
I saw a brilliant video recently which was wrong from start to finish, everything about it was completely and utterly wrong. It was eventually deleted but I kept a copy to show people what not to do and why.
Laying at the bottom of the range just because it's at the bottom of the range doesn't really achieve much. You need a reason to do that.
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ruthlessimon
- Posts: 2153
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm
The reason people struggle, is because they don't realise the method you describe is simply too vague to be of use.
Simply defining the range is complicated, & will vary from trader to trader. Defining the various bits of price action you need to see is also dang complicated
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deansaccount
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 5:19 pm
Not many people will ever share their edge, if its half decent they will make enough money to never need to sell books or courses, these are the people you will never hear from or about. It would be interesting to run a poll on how many users in here are actually profitable and how long it took to become consistently profitable.
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welshboy06
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:06 pm
That's the thing, there's loads of videos of people trading on the web, but none of them explain why they enter/exit. They just say "I have a feeling this will drift/steam". Then people try copying their actions, without understanding what actually is happening and why.deansaccount wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:12 pmNot many people will ever share their edge, if its half decent they will make enough money to never need to sell books or courses, these are the people you will never hear from or about. It would be interesting to run a poll on how many users in here are actually profitable and how long it took to become consistently profitable.
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deansaccount
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 5:19 pm
You also don't get to see the ones where they got it wrong, just the perfect trades with someone narrating over the top.welshboy06 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:15 pmThat's the thing, there's loads of videos of people trading on the web, but none of them explain why they enter/exit. They just say "I have a feeling this will drift/steam". Then people try copying their actions, without understanding what actually is happening and why.deansaccount wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:12 pmNot many people will ever share their edge, if its half decent they will make enough money to never need to sell books or courses, these are the people you will never hear from or about. It would be interesting to run a poll on how many users in here are actually profitable and how long it took to become consistently profitable.
These are my thoughts too. If these 'experts' are making all this money trading, why would they need to also spend time writing/selling books and running courses to impart their knowledge, particularly as those they are teaching could become a threat to them and their profitability of they become good at it and trade in the same markets.deansaccount wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:12 pmNot many people will ever share their edge, if its half decent they will make enough money to never need to sell books or courses, these are the people you will never hear from or about. It would be interesting to run a poll on how many users in here are actually profitable and how long it took to become consistently profitable.
Because it's win / win. The more dumb ( or partially educated) money in the market the better, plus if they have a bad day, they still earn from trading courses and software subscriptions.deggsy10 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:48 pm
These are my thoughts too. If these 'experts' are making all this money trading, why would they need to also spend time writing/selling books and running courses to impart their knowledge, particularly as those they are teaching could become a threat to them and their profitability of they become good at it and trade in the same markets.
Objectively, it is not in the best interests of any software developer to provide 'too many' features that could make software highly competitive and affect their bottom line, it a balancing act.
At the end of the day, from my perspective, I want to show people that I do it rather than just pretend to and I want to see the market grow. So I'm happy to share stuff. The market is measured in billions now compared to just millions when I started talking about it at financial expos back in the early 2000's.
Bet Angel was created to solve the various trading problems that were there to be solved, it had to be created, nothing suitable existed at the time. We didn't turn up years later to exploit traders, we created it when Betfair didn't even have an API. At the time it needed funding so we sold subscriptions to it. The software marketplace is now very competitive and diverse so it's a different market now from back then. I can't speak for others but I am sat here just like you trying to unpick the market most days. I think it's important to do that and not simply serve up the rhetoric.
The problem I have found is even if you give somebody something that definitely works and can be replicated it doesn't mean they will do it. So I've learnt that psychology is such a huge player in anybody's success. I'd say being able to work that out will give you a massive leg up on others.
Bet Angel was created to solve the various trading problems that were there to be solved, it had to be created, nothing suitable existed at the time. We didn't turn up years later to exploit traders, we created it when Betfair didn't even have an API. At the time it needed funding so we sold subscriptions to it. The software marketplace is now very competitive and diverse so it's a different market now from back then. I can't speak for others but I am sat here just like you trying to unpick the market most days. I think it's important to do that and not simply serve up the rhetoric.
The problem I have found is even if you give somebody something that definitely works and can be replicated it doesn't mean they will do it. So I've learnt that psychology is such a huge player in anybody's success. I'd say being able to work that out will give you a massive leg up on others.
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Nero Tulip
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:29 pm
As with trading, reality contains many shades of grey when it comes to the - 'those that can - do, those that can't - teach' idea. I'm certain you can find any variation of potential coach from this list,
- total scam artists who've never traded a penny of their own money or are massive losers at trading,
- those that don't trade much but are knowledgeable about trading,
- people who trade their own book extensively and do well, who sell advice as a means of insurance against bad runs / regulatory change / platform changes / trading costs,
- any variation of skill from above (and below in Peter's case) examples coupled with selling software, books etc,
- good to extreme top traders / bettors who do not give out advice or anything else relating to their strategy or markets that they trade.
With such a wide range of potential sources for trading advice, it's not easy for people learning to weed out those they should be listening to / taking notes from, and those they really shouldn't.
This is not an easy pursuit, that much is obvious to anyone that tries. Any advice that seems simple and systematic is highly unlikely to give you long term profits. Any advice/strategies that are in the main stream (forums, youtube etc) are equally unlikely to reward you, since everyone is fighting over the scraps of edge. Any pursuit where 90-99% of people lose should immediately suggest, that you need to do things differently, to think differently, to take steps other people don't - either it's too much hard work, the maths is too complex, the coding is tricky, the idea is abstract and so on.. the fewer people that have thought of your idea and bothered with it, the better.
- total scam artists who've never traded a penny of their own money or are massive losers at trading,
- those that don't trade much but are knowledgeable about trading,
- people who trade their own book extensively and do well, who sell advice as a means of insurance against bad runs / regulatory change / platform changes / trading costs,
- any variation of skill from above (and below in Peter's case) examples coupled with selling software, books etc,
- good to extreme top traders / bettors who do not give out advice or anything else relating to their strategy or markets that they trade.
With such a wide range of potential sources for trading advice, it's not easy for people learning to weed out those they should be listening to / taking notes from, and those they really shouldn't.
This is not an easy pursuit, that much is obvious to anyone that tries. Any advice that seems simple and systematic is highly unlikely to give you long term profits. Any advice/strategies that are in the main stream (forums, youtube etc) are equally unlikely to reward you, since everyone is fighting over the scraps of edge. Any pursuit where 90-99% of people lose should immediately suggest, that you need to do things differently, to think differently, to take steps other people don't - either it's too much hard work, the maths is too complex, the coding is tricky, the idea is abstract and so on.. the fewer people that have thought of your idea and bothered with it, the better.