finding an edge

[Chrisglenn664]

Hi guys,

I just need a bit of insight from you full-time/hardcore traders. Basically iv been studying and learning how to trade for around a year and iv been using real money for around 3 months, I find on average I trade 3-4 days a week (due to work commitments) for around 3 hours each time and find using £100 stakes I generally return £100 a day.

My issue is I keep hearing people talking about having an edge in various horse racing markets and you must have several edges in order to succeed full time!!

Now I'll be honest I have no such edges apart from the obvious which is listening to live interviews and following the money in the markets and if something comes in something else has to go out, basic stuff that everyone knows really! All my trades are based pure on technical data I.e WOM, graphs and volume.

My question is do you have to have these so called "edges" to make it full time?? I know people don't want to give away too much but do they exist and how many edges in general do people have, I know these edges only happen ant certain times during certain races when a certain set if events happen but any advice and related blog post videos would be greatly appreciated.

[iambic_pentameter]

I think that if you are consistently getting £100 from each session, then you probably already have an edge already.

That is an excellent result - do that 6 days a week and you are looking at the equivalent of the national average wage.

As has often been said on here, yes, edges are important but if I were looking to go full-time, I'd be asking myself:

1) Have I been consistently profitable for at least 12-18 months?
2) Have I tried trading for a week i.e. taking time off from my normal job, to see what it is like?
3) Do I have enough savings to cover any periods where I am ill, or have a bad run.

Best of luck

Iambic

[glen10]

NAW is less than that, its £27000, less tax and NI = £22040 or £424 PW. much less than £600 and no tax and NI to pay, just 5% comm. £570 clear.
not bad at all!

[Bluesky]

If I was you I would follow everything iambic has said in his excellent reply to your question.

[iambic_pentameter]

I am not a PC payer but I think once you exceed £2000 lifetime profits, you would pay 20% premium charges each week.

[Bluesky]

I am not a PC payer but I think once you exceed £2000 lifetime profits, you would pay 20% premium charges each week.

Yes I think your right, I also think the PC charges can increase even higher to 40% and even 60%. There are apparently ways to mitigate some of these charges, but most of us will never have to worry about paying those kinds of rates, it would be a nice worry to have lol.

I think unless your in a horrible job that you hate, with poor pay, little advancement prospects and little benefits they you need to think very carefully about packing in work and trading full time.

[glen10]

I am not a PC payer but I think once you exceed £2000 lifetime profits, you would pay 20% premium charges each week.

you can only make 2K and then you have to pay 20%? you can earn £11500 before you even pay tax!!??
this cant be right surely, so making £100 PD allows you 20 days profit before you start paying 20% on everything from then on? could someone please clarify?

[Bluesky]

I am not a PC payer but I think once you exceed £2000 lifetime profits, you would pay 20% premium charges each week.

you can only make 2K and then you have to pay 20%? you can earn £11500 before you even pay tax!!??
this cant be right surely, so making £100 PD allows you 20 days profit before you start paying 20% on everything from then on? could someone please clarify?

Mis read iambics post, I think its £20,000 not £2,000. There are some posts on this site that explain it all in detail do a search I would imagine they are easy enough to find.

[glen10]

cheers bluesky, ill have a look.

[ANGELS15]

It sounds to me chrisglen664 that you have the attributes and instincts of a successful trader. I'm sure it's been said elsewhere that you don't necessarily have to have specific knowlege of the things you're trading akin to a stockmarket trader not needing to know about all the various industries. average £100 is fantastic for someone only doing this for a year or so and inspiration to new people like myself.

[iambic_pentameter]

From Betfair:

"Each customer will also have a £1,000 allowance against the Premium Charge. This means that every customer considered for the Premium Charge will be exempted from the first £1,000 of the charge incurred"

http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Betfair.Charges/

Be good if a PC payer can clarify this - if they can do so without using any swear words, extra bonus points will be awarded

[Euler]

You can earn £5k before the charges kick in.

[iambic_pentameter]

Thanks for the clarification, Euler.

I couldn't see that on the Betfair site.

Surprisingly.

[bennyboy351]

You can earn £5k before the charges kick in.

I've just had a look at Betfair's charging info - and now I have a headache!!! WHY can't they just charge a simple commission to everyone? Surely 5% on any profit is a bloody good wedge? Or am I missing something?.......

Have a great day
George.

PS - I see your Birthday is in March - are you a Pisces like me?

[Bluesky]

I've just had a look at Betfair's charging info - and now I have a headache!!! WHY can't they just charge a simple commission to everyone? Surely 5% on any profit is a bloody good wedge? Or am I missing something?.......

Yes I think your missing the way BF looks at things. I think PW mentioned something about this in another thread, and its similar to how poker sites used to think about things years ago (they probably still do but not played on line poker for years).

Betting exchanges and poker sites want to make as much money in commissions (known as rake in the case of poker) as they possibly can. They think (others may well disagree) that the best way to do this, is if their customers lose money over a lengthy period of time, and not really quickly. The way to do this is to try and dissuade as many of the winning 5% of winning traders as possibly to leave and go and do something else. This (in their opinion) should allow the remaining 95% of traders to hang onto their money a bit longer. If as PW said in the previous thread, you lose your money slowly, you are more likely to re load when funds get low, than if you burn through it in next to no time.

Their ultimate aim would be for all traders to slowly lose money, this is I imagine how they would maximise their profits. They do however have to balance things out though, if they made the PC charge so onerous that most of the 5% would leave, not too many new people would take up sports trading, knowing that if they became successful BF would take most of their profits.

The 5% of winning traders on the other hand can with justification claim to supply liquidity to the markets. Apparently (I don't know I wasn't trading then) but when the PC charge was introduced, liquidity did suffer.

The vast majority of us will never have to worry too much about the PC charge, but I'm sure if your one of the 5% its very annoying.