light bulb moment in betfair trading career

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harrysdog
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:38 pm

-£400 betfair/betangel trading course
-£200 betangel course
-£300 in soccer mystic fees(but free if you are not a returning customer...?!)
-£600 in betangel software fees
-£400 personal tuition from a bloke called Dave something
-£thousand+ in losses through gambling...i mean trading techniques learnt like..trading football under 2.5s in play
-£177 betfair data charges


The realisation that I would probably have significantly more fun
and similar chance of making money on the roulette wheel at a casino than battling
for hours against the horse trading cartel....Priceless...



Sorry.. yes I am bitter at the moment..my own fault etc.. BDP charges sent me over the edge.... but I wont give up just yet.. its only time and money :-)
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LeTiss
Posts: 5489
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

Where did all those BA costs come from?

I have spent £300 on BA software & I can say without hesitation, it's the best £300 I've ever spent
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Hi Harrysdog

I wouldn't give up just yet... :)

Having received personal tuition from Dave attended the Betangel course, you're probably familiar with some profitable techniques.

But with trading, it's said that success is only 20% technical knowledge. If you can honestly say that you've applied what you've learned with complete focus and discipline, and not given in at all to your fear and greed, then perhaps it is time to call it a day. But if you haven't, then why not try applying what you've learned, with small stakes initially? And if you find yourself making a constant profit, gradually increase the stakes?

I would recommend you read a book by a guy called Mark Douglas - Trading in the Zone. This quote sums up what I am ultimately aiming for in my trading:

On any given day, week, or month, the markets make available vast amounts of money to anyone who has the capacity to put on a trade. Since the markets are in constant motion, this money is also constantly flowing, which makes the possibilities for success greatly magnified and seemingly within your grasp. I use the word "seemingly" to make an important distinction between the two groups of traders. For those who have learned how to be consistent, or have broken through what I call the "threshold of consistency,"the money is not only within their grasp; they can virtually take it at will. I'm sure that some will find this statement shocking or difficult to believe, but it is true. There are some limitations, but for the most part, money flows into the accounts of these traders with such ease and effortlessness that it literally boggles most people's minds.

Jeff
harrysdog wrote:-£400 betfair/betangel trading course
-£200 betangel course
-£300 in soccer mystic fees(but free if you are not a returning customer...?!)
-£600 in betangel software fees
-£400 personal tuition from a bloke called Dave something
-£thousand+ in losses through gambling...i mean trading techniques learnt like..trading football under 2.5s in play
-£177 betfair data charges


The realisation that I would probably have significantly more fun
and similar chance of making money on the roulette wheel at a casino than battling
for hours against the horse trading cartel....Priceless...



Sorry.. yes I am bitter at the moment..my own fault etc.. BDP charges sent me over the edge.... but I wont give up just yet.. its only time and money :-)
ba1000
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:02 pm

HarrysDog you showed great courage to tell us about your loses...I have lost thousands trying to learn how to become a trader - instead i have been just a gambler.

I gave up a job in 2003 to do financial spread betting - losts thousands; I have tried Betfair - lost thousands - and I only was a small stakes player.

My win to loss ratio is approx 60% (after perfoming thousands of trades) but that means abolutely however my profit to loss ratio is -100000,s.

I am not complaining as I knew the risks when I started - I was always told as a child never to gamble.

I can not help you how to become a successful trader however you must ask the question: are you prepared to lose everything in attempting to become one?

There is nothing like recieving a regular wage every week in a job something which people who have jobs take far too much for granted.
Bet Angel
Bet Angel
Bet Angel
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:47 pm

Sorry to hear you are struggling, Do you record any of your trading?
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walshy
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 12:05 am

Hi Harrysdog,

Your not alone in this, I too have been on the course, and put a lot of time and effort into it but after almost a year of this everytime I feel as though I move a step forward I have a day that makes me feel as though I've just taken 2 back. Today was a perfect example of this.

The problem is I can have 3 or 4 winning days then have a losing one that not only wipes out the previous few days profits but adds some to it

I feel as though I'm not that far away from making it work but I must admit there are days when I do wonder if thats just blind faith


Having viewed recordings of my losing races I'm generally not that wrong in understanding what is happening but the way I trade the race is where the problem lies, although I'm finding it hard to work with the market manipulation that seems to happen.

Anyway good luck I share your pain and dont think we're alone in that either
Last edited by walshy on Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
blackfriar
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:06 pm

Hi Harry - I was curious to know if your horse racing losses come from trading in-play or pre-race?
Bet Angel
Bet Angel
Bet Angel
Posts: 4031
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:47 pm

The reason for asking if you record your trading is I am sure Peter would have a look at it for you and offer comment. You would have to offer some explanation as to what you are thinking or trying to do, so he can understand what angle you are coming from.
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LeTiss
Posts: 5489
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

3 years ago when I was getting quite frustrated, I went out and bought myself an exercise book.

I then wrote a journal of every single trade I done & on what sport. I recorded what bets I done & why. When I then recorded the results, determining what my train of thought was at the time of placing the trade proved to be crucial. This helped me find what I was good at & what I was crap at.

This was my lightbulb moment..........I stopped trading on Horses (apart from dipping my toe into early price markets) and just traded on sport, primarily Football & Tennis

Traders who are continually failing, need to seriously analyse what they are doing.
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walshy
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 12:05 am

Does the offer to have peter have a look at a recording extend my way? I'm sure it would help me no end if possible.
Bet Angel
Bet Angel
Bet Angel
Posts: 4031
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:47 pm

Sure, I'm sure he won't mind. Just be aware he is often very busy so may take a little time to come back.
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walshy
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 12:05 am

Thats great, do I send it to the support address? ?
ba1000
Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:02 pm

Harrysdog just for you: I performed 632 trades yesterday. I was using £2 stakes with a 100 pound bank.

14:10 Extr 13th Apr 0.13
14:20 Ponte 13th Apr 0.47
14:30 Yarm 13th Apr 0.38
14:40 Extr 13th Apr 0.26
14:50 Ponte 13th Apr 0.41
15:00 Yarm 13th Apr 0.56
15:10 Extr 13th Apr 0.55
15:20 Ponte 13th Apr 0.64
15:30 Yarm 13th Apr 0.23
15:40 Extr 13th Apr 0.39
15:50 Ponte 13th Apr 0.30
16:00 Yarm 13th Apr 0.82
16:10 Extr 13th Apr 0.66
16:20 Ponte 13th Apr 0.28

Everything was going well..until it blew up in my face and my groundhog day continued...as my control was totally lost.

16:30 Yarm 13th Apr -21.12

this went into loss pre race I let it go in play and thought the market is telling me I'm wrong so I changed direction looking to scratch at that moment the market reversed and went back in the direction i had just changed from and by the time I clicked to just get out -21.12 - two days profit down the drain.

I then brought it back by outright trading (some of the horses i was familar with and if i had off let the trades run i would have been +20 for the day instead i did the "sensible thing" and just took a profit

16:40 Extr 13th Apr 0.91
16:50 Ponte 13th Apr 0.67
17:00 Yarm 13th Apr 6.47
17:10 Extr 13th Apr 1.82
17:20 Ponte 13th Apr 5.17

and then lost it again

17:40 Extr 13th Apr -31.36

and then got a couple back again

17:55 Lim 13th Apr 20.00
18:25 Lim 13th Apr 2.08

I was lucky to only be -9.28 for the day.
simons
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:30 am

The biggest problem I find is discipline.

I'm not talking large stakes, however letting something go in play ie a straight out bet.

This bet looses and I try and make it up on the next event, another straight out bet. The second bet is done while I'm angry with myself for the first bet.

A fast downward spiral.

However, I'm starting again on Friday with renewed vigour.

No straight out bets if at all possible. (Sometimes I may get caught going in play I'll live with it because everything will come out in the wash ie I'll win some and loose some.)


My strategy will be to make a compound 2% on average profit per day trading 30 events per day. I know it's possible the following things have held me back.


greed
fear
lust
boredom
distractions
Mug
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:53 am

ba1000 wrote:I let it go in play
What was the loss before inplay?
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