Betfair hidden cross matching

[Nero Tulip]

Firstly, this is intended to be informational, apologies if this is already widely known - it was new to me. Secondly, I'm not into letting stuff like this consume me, while I find it frustrating, I am happy to let it go and get on with life - this post is probably wasting too much of my life away as it is...

Synopsis - Some interesting shenanigans go on on the betfair website when it comes to what bets they actually show, it appears they've taken to hiding your lays, and posting up their own cross match first on the other side. The easily drawn presumption being that unwitting punters will match them first, and they can pocket the difference.

Details, screenshots etc..

In the absence of tennis at this time of the day and a sleep pattern that still messed up, I thought I'd look at some random e-sports markets... very low liquidity obviously, with wide books, I figured I'd throw in some small bets and see whether it was bots laying the odds or not. Here is the market..

download/file.php?mode=view&id=12189

First thing I did was post a lay of Virtus at 2.04 for £5. And to my surprise, the market now looked like this...

download/file.php?mode=view&id=12190

No sign of my 2.04 lay, but an extra £5 backing Secret at 2.00 ! I then decided to find out how big my bet needed to be before they would show it...the answer is £10.

download/file.php?mode=view&id=12191

Will start a new post to attach more screen shots..

[Nero Tulip]

Continued..

Posting smaller lays via betangel does show the smaller x match offers, but still doesn't show them on the website..

download/file.php?mode=view&id=12192

download/file.php?mode=view&id=12193

There's a little extra in the previous screen shot about what happens if you hit what is on the website, despite what is actually offered underneath..

Just thought that was interesting, I do worry sometimes about the exchange, and the various stuff that bf may or may not do behind closed doors, there's many markets I suspect that are mostly themselves posting x match offers, with the implied profit margin contained within.. one day, the tide will go out and all the ordinary users could find they've go no swimwear on.

[LeTiss]

Cross Matching has destroyed the exchange IMO - it has distorted the integrity of the markets. BF claim it's so we have a better chance to get matched, which of course is bullshit, it's purely designed for BF to make millions by creaming off the broken books

With regards to your examples, I can't answer that at all - it would have been interesting to see if anyone had taken your offer of 2.04, and how that would have registered on the exchange

[sa7med]

No sign of my 2.04 lay, but an extra £5 backing Secret at 2.00 ! I then decided to find out how big my bet needed to be before they would show it...the answer is £10.

Are you sure your settings are set to see offers as low as 5?

ie if you click settings on the right and then betview: there's a slider that will only show money available greater than x, with 2 being the lowest setting.

[LeTiss]

No sign of my 2.04 lay, but an extra £5 backing Secret at 2.00 ! I then decided to find out how big my bet needed to be before they would show it...the answer is £10.

Are you sure your settings are set to see offers as low as 5?

ie if you click settings on the right and then betview: there's a slider that will only show money available greater than x, with 2 being the lowest setting.

Good post sa7med - I never knew that facility even existed!

[Nero Tulip]

No sign of my 2.04 lay, but an extra £5 backing Secret at 2.00 ! I then decided to find out how big my bet needed to be before they would show it...the answer is £10.

Are you sure your settings are set to see offers as low as 5?

ie if you click settings on the right and then betview: there's a slider that will only show money available greater than x, with 2 being the lowest setting.

and that is why this forum is gold.. thanks and I too never knew that existed ! thanks sa7med !

[stueytrader]

Cross Matching has destroyed the exchange IMO - it has distorted the integrity of the markets. BF claim it's so we have a better chance to get matched, which of course is bullshit, it's purely designed for BF to make millions by creaming off the broken books

With regards to your examples, I can't answer that at all - it would have been interesting to see if anyone had taken your offer of 2.04, and how that would have registered on the exchange

While it's true about some market matching, surely the X-matching won't stop real moves happening still though. For example if a specific horse gets heavily backed the swing will still be the same. X-Matching (from what I can tell) is only really a form of scalping for smaller changes isn't it?
In other words, is it really anything to be bothered about if you're looking to take advantages of solid market moves (possibly more worrying if you are essentially scalping smaller moves)?

[Euler]

I've always been suspicious of XM, half of because of the way it was introduced without warning and rounded in their favour and they were forced to reveal that. It's expansion and application has widened a lot since then, for seemingly little benefit to users.

[stueytrader]

I've always been suspicious of XM, half of because of the way it was introduced without warning and rounded in their favour and they were forced to reveal that. It's expansion and application has widened a lot since then, for seemingly little benefit to users.

Would you still agree though that it wouldn't stop any real market moves from happening? (meaning real and strong support for a selection, for example)?

[Euler]

It's lowered the fill rate and made the markets more volatile. So it hasn't stopped anything as such, just made it more erratic. I suspect that tweaking it makes it work better from a commercial perspective for Betfair but is weakening the market long term. They can't seem to see that.

[stueytrader]

It's lowered the fill rate and made the markets more volatile. So it hasn't stopped anything as such, just made it more erratic. I suspect that tweaking it makes it work better from a commercial perspective for Betfair but is weakening the market long term. They can't seem to see that.

Yes, all good points.

[ShaunWhite]

Betfair but is weakening the market long term. They can't seem to see that.

I think (for football at least) what's contributing to weaker prime markets is the sheer number of markets. The dozens of frankly stupid markets (corners, bookings, time of first goal, Asian handicaps etc etc) are nothing but leakage from the liquity pool. Greater choice doesn't magically put additional spending money in people's pockets.

[Trader Pat]

Betfair but is weakening the market long term. They can't seem to see that.

I think (for football at least) what's contributing to weaker prime markets is the sheer number of markets. The dozens of frankly stupid markets (corners, bookings, time of first goal, Asian handicaps etc etc) are nothing but leakage from the liquity pool. Greater choice doesn't magically put additional spending money in people's pockets.

Agreed.

The Betfair website is a bit like buying a PC from PC World, full of crap nobody wants or asked for.

[stueytrader]

Fair point about number of markets, though it's also worth considering that the main markets seem to lose much less than some of the tumbleweed side markets, from my experience at least.
There was a time when markets like bookings would be really thriving, now almost dead. In comparison the main match markets may be down from the heyday, but not as much.

[BetScalper]

Do they still have Time of first goal markets ?

I remember a few years back when the ref blew his whistle to start the match and a player kicked the ball straightout of play. I believe he and some of his syndicate friends got prosecuted as some very large bets went in on 0-10 mins just before kickoff.

There is some dodgy people out there.