How do you make over 1k in 1 race?

[rhysmr2]

I've been trading for years and I do alright, averaging just over 1k a week so not with the big boys but good enough.

My biggest and best profits in a single race is around the £200 mark. When I see profits like £1800 (Heathcotes recent post) and Peter has also posted similar figures as well, I wonder how the hell they do it!? after hedging up as well!

I mean they must be using huge stakes like over 10k and getting about 20 tics from the markets as well using these huge stakes

Does anyone know of any video's or anything of someone making over 1k pre race after hedging? I'd love to see it.

I might just dump £10k at 1.7 on a strong fav and hope it goes down to 1.43 before exiting the trade, that should give me about £1800 after hedging, only joking, don't try this at home

Oh yeah and I don't have 10k in my account

[Bet Angel]

Here is my view.

First off, you don't get the big races all the time, they are on the right edge of the bell curve. You need a really nice set up to get one. A set up that can tolerate a trade of that intensity. But, if you really go for it you can reach some very large turnover in a race so it's far from impossible given the right set up.

If you want bigger numbers you can increase the quantity and speed of orders you put through the market at smaller stakes, you can increase your overall stake (which often doesn't really work that well), or increase your margin 'catch a big move'.

Which ever way you look at it, you have to increase something to get to bigger totals. Other than that its very similar to trading at smaller amounts. I personally think it is much easier to trade with smaller amounts as you don't have to wait to get anything filled. You do using bigger amounts and this means you spend longer with an exposed position in the market and that means there is more chance it can go against you. Also you end up having to exit a large position peice meal, or else you move the market.

[Zenyatta]

I think trading is entirely about *time* and *speed*, traders are simply exploiting time advantages to react slightly faster than everyone else to new information coming in. The only way to make large amounts out of this is to (a) have someone right there at the venue of the sporting event itself, or (b) have a super-duper tech setup i.e super fast pictures from the venue.

[Bet Angel]

Today and yesterday were two good examples of what I was talking about in the previous post. Today was a breeze and I was flying through the card with very few mistakes, a lot of confidence and I managed to get some good results including one race over £1k. Yesterday however felt like I was cutting through dense rainforest trying to look for a clearing and failing to find one. Each time I thought I was making progress I'd find another dead end.

Yesterday I couldn't get one race over £100 and while I still managed to get a total on the day it was just down to bloody minded persistance and not getting into any serious trouble. When you consider I did 50 races yesterday, my total only meant I averaged £20 a race. But as there are 10,000 races a year even smaller totals soon add up, as long as you don't let the downside get out of control. Little and often is just fine and doesn't come with any emotional baggage.

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[rhysmr2]

Cheers Bet Angel,

It's rare I get over £100 in a race, I'm happy with small and often profits but I can't see me ever making 1k in a day never mind a race!

Like you say, the only way is to get more money through the markets, either bigger stakes or more trades. Generllay when I try either I end up worse off

I guess I'll just keep at it, I'm always progressing, just at a slow rate.

[Zenyatta]

I'm convinced traders are in some sense 'masters of time', it's all timing isn't it?... control time and you control the universe. 'You're a winner, for a lifetime... if you seize that one moment in time...'

[hgodden]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that in order to confidently put in stakes large enough to make those kind of figures you would have to have an extroadinary understanding of the markets that go far beyond that of the average (even the average pro) trader.

I can use stakes of a few hundred in pretty much any market, knowing that I can get out quickly if neccessary, but to acheive those kind of figures you'd need to put an awful lot in and be extremely confident for whatever reason that the market would be going in the direction you believe. I have a couple of limited set ups where I can be 95% certain the market will move one way and for a few ticks, but this only applies to a limited number of markets. In order to make these huge consistent figures (and I don't just mean 1k per race, 1k per day is huge as far as I'm concerned) you've got to know some things about a large range of markets that the average trader doesn't...

[motorhead]

I've noticed that this large profits (1k per race) are always done in races with high odds on every horse (around 7.00-11.00 decimal odds).

[JacoboPolavieja]

I've noticed that this large profits (1k per race) are always done in races with high odds on every horse (around 7.00-11.00 decimal odds).

Although I'm not a so-called "pro-trader", I assume that's just because it's easier to achieve a big gap in prices with the necessary liquidity.

To have a 1 point price difference at low odds you need lots of ticks while at those odds it's sometimes just a matter of a couple of ticks. Of course, as well as thing may go your way, your liabilities are also higher.

It'd be really interesting to see a full video of one of those races... I agree, but I guess we won't .

Cheers!

[Bet Angel]

I've noticed that this large profits (1k per race) are always done in races with high odds on every horse (around 7.00-11.00 decimal odds).

If you browse through my blog you will see that this is definately not the case. The problem you have at higher odds is yes, you can get some decent profits through, but then you need to green them up by dividing at those odds, so what you gain in tick increments is lost in the greening process.

The big totals come from just hitting the sweet spot of a market which has volume or a big swing. If you browse the Barney Curley thread there was a race the other week where everybody had the potential to completely slaughter a market. You could have caught the move on either side or just one but there were opportunites in both directions. I actually traded it on two accounts so I could grab some screen shots to use in an article on swing trading. I used a smaller bank for demonstration purposes, but still managed £500 gross and just short of £200 net on that race. Most markets can absorb trade volume of five figures easily, but a big market could take six and any trades done at those levels have the potential to reach £1k but you would need a bank that could take fairly large liabilities to achieve that.

When I first started I would think £10 was just great, but from there you inevitably start trying to reach higher levels, first £100 then you push up from there. However, most your time is usually spent just trying to get anything out of a market. I would say I spend 99% of my time just trying to stay out of trouble and searching and prodding the market for an opportunity. If I find one then I increase stakes and start doing it properly but the majority of races just don't present anything, so I will just take what I have and wait for an opportunity.

I'd say the flaw with a lot of novice traders is that they expect something from every market and quite often you can go quite a few races where opportunities just don't occur. So that's why I spend most of my time trying to stay out of trouble, it helps minimise any potential losses. Make sure the market is your slave and not your master.

[JacoboPolavieja]

The hard thing of course, is to recognise opportunities. As a novice, some times it seems like "this market is going to hit hard this way" and just the moment you put your bet in, the thing that gets hit is your account... .

Thank your for your comments, it's very enlightening to see how the pro look and what they expect from each market.

Cheers!

[Dr Who]

Heathecote is an outed scam artist so don't take any notice of any of his drivel.

By trading big almost anyone can create profits over £1000 in one market. The trick is to do this consistently and to make a profit longterm.

People and companies who want to flog you stuff will show you selected markets they've traded profitably but that's only half the story.

One thing you need to learn is to treat almost everything you read with a huge dose of scepticism.

[motorhead]

I'd say the flaw with a lot of novice traders is that they expect something from every market and quite often you can go quite a few races where opportunities just don't occur. So that's why I spend most of my time trying to stay out of trouble, it helps minimise any potential losses. Make sure the market is your slave and not your master.

very true. I used to think: 'there are 28 races, my target is say 200 £ a day so I've to profit £ 7 in every race' which often means feeling the pressure of finding an opportunity even where there are no real possibilities.

[jimrobo]

Heathecote is an outed scam artist so don't take any notice of any of his drivel .

Sorry where did you get this from? That's a pretty serious accusation and I hope you can either back it up or retract it.

[Zenyatta]

No doubt many are bemused at Peter saying he got 'only' 1000 pounds for the day. Most people like me would be thrilled to make 1/10th that amount, 100 day is fine.

These UK horse racing markets are extremely tough, they've resisted everything I've thrown at them for two months now. Best I've been able to do so far is with certain kinds of In-Play strategies that appear to be marginally above break-even in certain types of races, but not really profitable. I don't think there are any simple edges to be found.