NSW markets and turnover charge

[sa7med]

So I've noticed that some NSW racing markets show that they are part of the turnover charge under the rules section on the betfair page, like this:

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/h ... 69478.0540
if you click on the rules icon you'll see it says "This is a NSW turnover charge market"


but others dont, like this Wagga market:
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/h ... 69478.0540

even though it's in NSW.

Is this a mistake on betfair's part or is the turnover charge only applied on specific markets? Can anyone clarify? Does anyone have a list of turnover charge only markets?

This is the list I have:

• Canterbury Cant (AUS)
  Randwick Rand (AUS)
  Rosehill Rose (AUS)
  Warwick Farm WFrm (AUS)
  Menangle Mngl (AUS)
  Albury Alby (AUS)
  Armidale Armi (AUS)
  Ballina Bali (AUS)
  Bankstown Bank (AUS)
  Bathurst Bath (AUS)
  Blayney Blay (AUS)
  Bowraville Bowr (AUS)
  Broken Hill BrnH (AUS)
  Bulli Bull (AUS)
  Canberra (ACT) Canb (AUS)
  Casino Casi (AUS)
  Cessnock Cess (AUS)
  Coffs Harbour Coff (AUS)
  Coolamon Cool (AUS)
  Coonabarabran Cona (AUS)
  Coonamble Cnbl (AUS)
  Corowa Coro (AUS)
  Cootamundra Coot (AUS)
  Cowra Cowr (AUS)
  Dubbo Dubb (AUS)
  Eugowra Eugo (AUS)
  Fairfield Fair (AUS)
  Forbes Forb (AUS)
  Gilgandra Gilg (AUS)
  Glen Innes GInn (AUS)
  Gosford Gosf (AUS)
  Goulburn Goul (AUS)
  Grafton Graf (AUS)
  Griffith Grif (AUS)
  Gundagai Gund (AUS)
  Gunnedah Gunn (AUS)
  Hawkesbury Hawk (AUS)
  Inverell Inve (AUS)
  Junee Jnee (AUS)
  Kembla Grange KemG (AUS)
  Kempsey Kemp (AUS)
  Leeton Leet (AUS)
  Lismore Lism (AUS)
  Maitland Mait (AUS)
  Moree Mree (AUS)
  Moruya Moru (AUS)
  Mudgee Mudg (AUS)
  Murwillumbah Murw (AUS)
  Muswellbrook Musw (AUS)
  Narrabri Nbri (AUS)
  Narrandera Ndra (AUS)
  Narromine Narr (AUS)
  Newcastle Newc (AUS)
  Nowra Nowr (AUS)
  Orange Orng (AUS)
  Parkes Park (AUS)
  Peak Hill Peak (AUS)
  Penrith Penr (AUS)
  Port Macquarie PMaq (AUS)
  Queanbeyan Quea (AUS)
  Quirindi Quir (AUS)
  Sapphire Coast Sapp (AUS)
  Scone Scne (AUS)
  Tamworth Tamw (AUS)
  Taree Tare (AUS)
  Temora Temo (AUS)
  Wagga Wagg (AUS)
  Walcha Walc (AUS)
  Warren Warn (AUS)
  West Wyalong WeWy (AUS)
  Wellington Well (AUS)
  Wyong Wyng (AUS)
  Young Youn (AUS)
  Young Youn (AUS)

[Derek27]

Your link to the Wagga market points to a Port M. market. However, Wagga, that's on the same day, is a harness meeting and as such does not incur the turnover charge.

[sa7med]

Your link to the Wagga market points to a Port M. market. However, Wagga, that's on the same day, is a harness meeting and as such does not incur the turnover charge.

My apologies, this is the market I meant
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/h ... 69446.0317

so other than harness races all NSW courses incur turnover charges?

[sa7med]

Your link to the Wagga market points to a Port M. market. However, Wagga, that's on the same day, is a harness meeting and as such does not incur the turnover charge.

My apologies, this is the market I meant
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/h ... 69446.0317

so other than harness races all NSW courses incur turnover charges?

Also, how do I know if it's a harness race?

EDIT: The races marked "Pace" correct?

[Derek27]

As far as I know it's just horse racing markets that have TC applied. Harness races will have 'pace' or 'trot' in the race title. NSW harness meetings charge 8% commission but no turnover charge.

[ShaunWhite]

Your link to the Wagga market points to a Port M. market. However, Wagga, that's on the same day, is a harness meeting and as such does not incur the turnover charge.

Is that because they're not thoroughbreds? That's the only clause I can find. If it excludes all harness racing I'll start doing all those too. Atm I just exclude everything in nsw.

[Derek27]

Your link to the Wagga market points to a Port M. market. However, Wagga, that's on the same day, is a harness meeting and as such does not incur the turnover charge.

Is that because they're not thoroughbreds? That's the only clause I can find. If it excludes all harness racing I'll start doing all those too. Atm I just exclude everything in nsw.

I haven't looked at the T&C lately but they always declare turnover charge markets in the rules and it is always excluded from the harness market rules.

[sa7med]

Your link to the Wagga market points to a Port M. market. However, Wagga, that's on the same day, is a harness meeting and as such does not incur the turnover charge.

Is that because they're not thoroughbreds? That's the only clause I can find. If it excludes all harness racing I'll start doing all those too. Atm I just exclude everything in nsw.

I haven't looked at the T&C lately but they always declare turnover charge markets in the rules and it is always excluded from the harness market rules.

I've been avoiding them but will remove them from my filters. Thanks for the info! The betfair info is useless.

[PeterLe]

Afternoon,
Just on the Turnover charge...is it still 1.5% of the aggregated back bets? (Assuming you have traded in greater than 25 markets and have bets >2000 AUD (ie circa £1050 GBP))
If you were to have a lay only strategy, say £100/race and laid say 50 races for £100,would the turnover charge be applied to 50*1000*0.15 = £750 ? (thoughts being that whilst it s a lay only strategy, the back bets are converted into back bets via cross matching)..

Thanks in advance
regards
Peter
Edit: Also, if the £100 bets were matched at say 1.2, would the turnover charge be applied to the full £100 or the liability ie £20 in this case?

[Derek27]

Afternoon,
Just on the Turnover charge...is it still 1.5% of the aggregated back bets? (Assuming you have traded in greater than 25 markets and have bets >2000 AUD (ie circa £1050 GBP))
If you were to have a lay only strategy, say £100/race and laid say 50 races for £100,would the turnover charge be applied to 50*1000*0.15 = £750 ? (thoughts being that whilst it s a lay only strategy, the back bets are converted into back bets via cross matching)..

Thanks in advance
regards
Peter
Edit: Also, if the £100 bets were matched at say 1.2, would the turnover charge be applied to the full £100 or the liability ie £20 in this case?

It's greater than 24 (or 25 or more) markets. Turnover charge only applies to markets with matched back bets and it's applied to the total of back bets. I presume as little as £0.01 matched would add to the market tally.

I don't know if anything's changed but the formula on my spreadsheet is 1.2%? Might be an error as I haven't checked. But markets where you only match lay bets shouldn't be counted, but I've never tried that so I can't confirm.

[PeterLe]

Ok many thanks for your reply Derek, only using small stakes for the time being on a new strategy
regards
Peter

[Diacritical Quark]

Sorry I'm struggling to establish if this applies only to those on PC? I've been trading all these markets using a bot for the best part of a month and other than slightly higher commission rates I've not noticed anything else but then I don't pay any PC?

[Derek27]

Sorry I'm struggling to establish if this applies only to those on PC? I've been trading all these markets using a bot for the best part of a month and other than slightly higher commission rates I've not noticed anything else but then I don't pay any PC?

No, the charge applies regardless of whether you pay PC. Now that you mention it though, I'm not sure whether turnover charge would be included in the charges used for calculating PC, but I have no intention of finding out.

[ShaunWhite]

Sorry I'm struggling to establish if this applies only to those on PC? I've been trading all these markets using a bot for the best part of a month and other than slightly higher commission rates I've not noticed anything else but then I don't pay any PC?

No, the charge applies regardless of whether you pay PC. Now that you mention it though, I'm not sure whether turnover charge would be included in the charges used for calculating PC, but I have no intention of finding out.

They just count commission generated so additional charges aren't included.

Diacritical Quark, are you staking more than $2,000 in back bets during a week in that state? (BF rule 11.5b).
It's definately applies to everyone, it's a charge imposed by RNSW and they aren't going to know or care about your Betfair account status.

[Derek27]

They just count commission generated so additional charges aren't included.

I thought the transaction charge might be added to commission but I wouldn't know being a manual trader I've never had to pay it.