1 Graduate, 1 year and £3,000. What will happen?

[Betting_student]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post in the community so i would just like to say its a pleasure to e-meet you all and secondly, thank you to Peter for putting together such a fabulous community. I have just discovered Betfair trading, and the Bet Angel Youtube channel, and i have been blown away by Peter's knowledge, passion and enthusiasm for trading (If only my Uni lecturers expressed such a passion for their subjects!). I am very excited to be a part of this community and i look forward to getting to know you all.

Anyway, i think it would be useful if i provided a bit of background on myself before explaining the title of this post. I have recently graduated from the University of Leeds with a 1st class degree in Business management. My initial plan, after i graduated, was to work, save up some money and go travelling before i embarked on a graduate career in October 2021. Whilst researching ways to make some extra money i stumbled across matched betting which has led me to Betfair trading. Unfortunately, with the current state of the Covid-19 pandemic, travelling is looking more and more unlikely this year. As a result this has forced me to re-evaluate my plan for the year! The following year was meant to be a year of 'fun' and thus it was never my intention to use it to massively further my career prospects etc. And that has got me thinking....

I am taking the view that the next 12 months is essentially 'a free year' for me to try new things, discover what i want out of life and challenge the status quo and this is where Betfair trading comes in...I have a slightly crazy idea...I want to spend the next year learning to pre-race trade on Betfair (Horse racing) and i want to document my journey. I realized i am never going to have this opportunity again. I am 22, able to live with mum and dad rent free, i have my existing income streams to live on, i have limited bills, a £3,000 bank (that i am prepared to lose) and i more or less have 24 hours a day x 7 days a week to learn how to trade. I understand that this is a very fortunate position and most people learning to trade have to learn under very different circumstances. I am also under no illusions and i know trading is hard, very hard and very few experience significant profits. However, what i have learnt from my risk adverse parents is that if you are not prepare to take risks then opportunities often do not present themselves. I am serious about doing this and i am prepared to put the time, money and effort in to learn how to do this properly.

I do not know if i will be able to make £500, £5,000, £10,000, £20,000, £0, or -£3,000 profit this year. However, for me, the fear of not trying is much worse than the fear of losing £3,000. Having grown up with a Dad who has spent the last 40 years getting up at 5am and slaving away on a building site for 10/12 hours a day i have seen first hand the consequences of foregoing potential opportunities.

And thus...i turn to you, the Bet Angel community, where should a wannabe trader start? I have developed a basic understanding of betting exchanges, trading plans, searching for an edge, what creates a successful basic trade as well as a cursory knowledge of some trading strategies (scalping, swing trading but nothing detailed). I have learnt this from the Bet Angel academy, Bet Angel Youtube channel as well as Caan Berry's YT channel and book. However, i feel i am at the stage where i need more detail on strategies, reading the markets, order flow etc? I suppose in an ideal world i am looking for a comprehensive guide to these topics? Does such a thing exist? (I am of course happy to pay for training, guides etc). I am aware Peter has some paid material and Caan Berry also has a video pack course, does anyone have any experience of these, or experience with other courses? At the moment i find myself scrawling through the internet to find the same basic concepts being repeated again and again. Perhaps i need some paid material to take my learning to the next level? Any recommendation on free/ paid resources/ guides/videos/ blogs/ forums etc would be greatly appreciated and if you have read this post to the end thank you very much (and sorry for the rambling!)

Happy trading,
Betting_student

[NickH]

Welcome! Tip from my side: although video's and books are obviously really of added value on getting some knowledge about (sports)trading and the elements that are present within it (psychology, etc.), it is also important to just dive in to the markets and experience them yourself. Learn to apply what you have seen in the videos and/or books based on what you see in the market. Start with a small bank, as you will make some mistakes in the start whilst learning how the market behaves and it will costs you in te start. And most importantly, learn from your mistakes

[sionascaig]

As above poster says - start with a small bank...

I remember someone saying 90% of traders lose 90% of their bank in 3 months (was in relation to financial markets) - they just don't have proper mental attitude / risk management in place....

Best wishes, and have fun.... (which it won't be if you blow your bank quickly!)

[Acewonder]

I am learning to trade myself although was an active betting man. I have the negative P&L which will come back to Zero someday provided i continue to get the fundamental right.

Here is my spin on things and it dawned on me only recently.

1. Psycology- Is your mind right for this, i hated losing so i would literally throw the sink at a losing day to win ( called chasing ) obviously somedays it works out but most days i dug a ravine. So make sure you can accept losing days or even losing trades. Dont be tempted to go inplay unless this is part of your strategy. I have seen my daily profit wiped out because of going in play on the 2nd to last race and then got stuck in the market. If there is anything more important in life it is your psycology. Work on it more than you work on the market and then you will be strong enough to deal with trading.

2. Record your trades, talk through it as you put on the trades and then watch it back , you will be so surprised at what you actually do . Watch how often you click the mouse etc.

3. Use demo mode, watch a lot of races or whatever you decide to trade in.

4. Start small. £.50/ trade is not bad . Key is to preserve your bank at all time. There is no greater feeling when you green up or have a small red and see your Capital is still intact to continue the fight.

5. Learn the techicals of the chart and Money Risk Management.

I only really trade pre-race and some inplay and tend to keep things simple. Once you feel comfortable doing this then you can look to automation and all that stuff. Spend the next few month learning , getting mentally strong as this game can take you to levels which you will not want your worse enemy to go espeically when things go south.

Welcome to the game and be mentally strong. Exercise , discipline yourself , have a routine. As the game needs it.

Bit of a ramble but that is what i have learnt so far. All the best.

Finally - Please dont assume you will be living it large with your mates at the pub every friday spending your winning on the liquid gold. If you have those thoughts, you are already putting yourself under pressure to perform and there is only one result. Disaster. Treat it like a business and stay serious. (Only if someone told me this when i left Uni )

[dt888]

Welcome, I enjoyed reading your opening post.

Im sure everyone will have slightly different advice to newbies but mine would be to have a click around on the ladders and learn how the software works (£2 stakes of course) and get many hours/weeks/months of screen time under your belt. See how the markets move and ask yourself why they move in that way. What happens across all runners (not just one) and how they all affect each other.

And collect data to analyse

Good luck!

[sniffer66]

Lots been said already but mine to add would be don't just tie yourself in to pre off horses, if it's not working out. I assume you've chosen those markets for good reason but I started there and was making money eventually but found I preferred tennis to trade manually - it just suited my style better - price movements are mechanical, in that you can predict price outcomes with greater certainty i.e If x then y.
Focus on one sport until you've (hopefully) nailed it but analyse your results and if it's not working out don't keep beating your head against a wall...

[megarain]

A 1st class degree is awesome.

It's a good contest in deciding whether that education isn't wasted by learning to trade, but given current conditions can understand.

Try to find a mentor - someone u can chat with daily and get a fairly quick response.

Use practice mode a lot, but pay some commission so that Betfair doesn't suspend your account.

Its gonna need a lot of screen time before you are even remotely comfortable.

Work hard and if you have the right mindset, you won't need much luck.

[LeTiss]

Hi, welcome aboard. Nice to have some youngsters on the forum......most of us are middle-aged and moaning about something

You have a fantastic base to learn and develop from - you have a decent bank, very little overheads, you have youth, a brain, plus a realisation that trading is difficult and success won't happen overnight.

It also sounds like you are approaching this from an analytical angle, as opposed to a betting one. People who gravitate to trading from being a punter tend to have a major problem......that's an aversion to losses. Punters are used to getting a run for their money, so find it very difficult to close positions for a guaranteed loss before a race/match has started. If you can close bad trades without allowing a blood pressure surge to impact upon your next decision, that's a good thing.

Occasionally, frustration will overspill into being pissed off. My advice is to walk away for 10 minutes, grab a coffee and chill out. I've never made good decisions in life when angry, and trading is no different

Having control over your liabilities is crucial, so don't overstake in the early stages. Losing too much money early doors has a drastic effect on one's confidence. A lack of confidence in the markets is not a recipe for success. It's like walking naked into a lion's den.......your bollocks will be gone in the blink of an eye

Good luck

[Diacritical Quark]

Congrats on the 1st, lot of knowledgeable posters more qualified than me have replied to you already but for me the biggest turning point in an otherwise hit and miss trading career is understanding the concept of value. It took me far too long to truly figure out what value actually means.

[Derek27]

I would echo what's already been said, start with a small bank. One or two hundred is more than enough to practice trading and it will take a lot of practice, it may even take longer than a year to get profitable. And it only takes one novice mistake or oversight to blow an entire bank. Good luck, and well done on your graduation.

[Kai]

Yet another student of the market? The more the merrier, welcome OP!

Wish someone told me that Betfair existed at 22, I'm lowkey jealous of the opportunity!

Sounds like you're approaching this from the right angle, so will most likely come down to whether you can find the key info about the markets to get into profit within that timeframe. But I'm afraid your starting bank is useless at this point, like others have pointed out, the only thing you can realistically do with it is lose it fast or lose it slow. It's a common misconception that you need a decent bank when starting out, because you really don't, as soon as you start trading properly you can build one relatively fast out of thin air simply by investing all the profit in it.

Something like a 100 pounds in your account should suffice to dip your toes in the markets and start collecting your first experience with minimal stakes, and since you're dealing with a clear timetable I would honestly just skip the practice mode phase and not delay the inevitable, playing with pennies instead will quickly add up so your balance will be a clear indicator as to how well you're doing.

I have developed a basic understanding of betting exchanges, trading plans, searching for an edge, what creates a successful basic trade as well as a cursory knowledge of some trading strategies (scalping, swing trading but nothing detailed). I have learnt this from the Bet Angel academy, Bet Angel Youtube channel as well as Caan Berry's YT channel and book. However, i feel i am at the stage where i need more detail on strategies, reading the markets, order flow etc? I suppose in an ideal world i am looking for a comprehensive guide to these topics? Does such a thing exist? (I am of course happy to pay for training, guides etc).

Yeah, Tomas (aka Sports Trading Exposed) made a detailed guide for that purpose, it's a free resource to use which is fantastic for aspiring prerace traders. You've done well to find Bet Angel which is like an oasis in a vast desert of nothingness, but Mr Berry doesn't appear to actively trade anymore and that's not a random jibe either, his guides are scalping guides in a nutshell for markets that have since changed, which would explain why he focuses more on marketing nowadays, and I'm pretty sure Peter and others share the same opinion.

Best of luck!

[Euler]

Welcome to the forum.

Despite having a product to sell, I would recommend investing your initial capital into your bank into learning about the market and yourself. That will give you a good platform to work from. You will also learn a lot about taking a risk and how the market really works. From there you can start moving forward.

Beware of the beginner's cycle, a process that will make you want to collect courses and books and destined to ultimately only be a costly and frustrating exercise. IMHO most of the advice being offered is just rehashed publically available information. Aside from that, it's important to find a niche.

The forum is packed full of people who have all been through it before. People who have plenty of experience of the markets so it's a useful resource now and a good place for some trading banter.

[spreadbetting]

A 1st class degree is awesome.

It's a good contest in deciding whether that education isn't wasted by learning to trade, but given current conditions can understand.

Try to find a mentor - someone u can chat with daily and get a fairly quick response.

Use practice mode a lot, but pay some commission so that Betfair doesn't suspend your account.

Its gonna need a lot of screen time before you are even remotely comfortable.

Work hard and if you have the right mindset, you won't need much luck.

I'd echo this, especially the bit about getting a mentor. Most of the advice you're gonna get is from people in the same boat as you and simply learning too. So whilst it'll be well meant most will be contradictory, stock phrases and useless, tbh I'm surprised no one's mentioned trading in the zone yet

Also the bit about looking at other sports than horse racing is wise, lots of sports run 24/7 these days so no need to tie yourself to racing which is very hard for a newbie to crack.

[Kai]

Forgot to say, at first you will probably learn more about yourself than the markets

But this is normal, and whether you make it or not, things you do learn can give you a head start on life regardless.

[Trader Pat]

Good luck on your journey. The only piece of advice I'll give you is if you're not sure what to do in the market, then do nothing