Trading from abroad

[FreeBaseMace]

Hi, have been trading for a while and seeing positive results. This has got me thinking long term…..

As I used to be a pro poker player many of the traits need for trading were already ingrained in me and like online poker, trading is tax free and could be done anywhere in the world. 15 years ago just before meeting my wife and starting a family I had planned on moving aboard to a warmer country and also where the cost of living was less. This would lead to a happy life in the sun and less pressure each month on my finances.

So now I’m in my 40’s in a successful job but finding that trading could offer all the same benefits for my family that online poker can offer. If this was to become a reality I would first pay off the mortgage, prove I could make a living from trading in the UK, make sure it was a life I wished to continue for myself and family, and then rent for 6 months in my country of choice to test this before making the move more permanent.

So, my question is about trading from abroad and any unplanned/unforeseen issues? For example, to my knowledge a move to the Canary Islands would require me to buy a property and prove I have several thousand in the bank. I would not need a job and I would not be part of their employment/welfare system. After discussing this with an expat whilst there they said if you run out of money you’re on your own, and generally need to go back to the UK.

As with playing poker I would continue with national insurance payments and private pension payments, whilst also keeping 6 months of expenses separately. Ideally, I would like to buy abroad and rent out my UK house thus lowering the risk and allowing for an easy return if we did not like it.

So, have I missed anything? Is there anyone out there doing this, does Betfair work the same, will I need to use a VPN etc?

Thanks for any help, FreeBaseMace.

[Dallas]

Moving to an EU country comes with a lot of uncertainty at the moment, just a few days ago there was a anger from Expats who may have to apply for formal residency in there country of choice or be limited to 90 day stays at a time

For the details Google - Expats fury brexit
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rules.html


For various regulatory reasons many countries including those in the EU have limited or no access to the main Betfair.com exchange (Spain and Italy have there own micro exchanges) so you'd need to use a VPN or VPS to continue to use Betfair properly from those (once your account is set up here)

[eightbo]

Exciting times.

Re: connecting
As Dallas mentioned VPN/VPS suitable for access abroad.  I discovered not so long ago that Betfair has capabilities to detect your use of VPN but I suspect they will continue to look the other way until legislation forces their hand (which may well never happen).
In any case, VPS should be viable long-term.

Re: destinations
Each country has been essentially forced by Brexit to determine how they are handling UK nationals who move & settle in their country before the end of Withdrawal Agreement (Dec 31st '20) & from the date UK is no longer seen as part of EU regarding travel (Jan 1st '21 onwards).

So from 2021, UK nationals will be by default in the "international" category when it comes to specific requirements for acquring residency.
The International category typically has the most stringent of requirements however there are instances of countries who are happy to accept UK citizens and to reflect this have either created a more lenient, unique set of criteria for Brexiteers & their families, or extended the lenient existing criteria [vs. international] if coming from an EU country pre-Brexit to a certain deadline in 2021 e.g. to June 2021

It's all a bit awkward as one country may add a simple stipulation such as "must be settled here by X date" which could be a specific difference.

For example for Canary islands (Spain), from my understanding of the long-term Spanish residency permit TIE (Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero) you may have to first register yourself as a "Self Employed Autonomo" where your source of income from Betfair Trading would probably come under the category of sports betting winnings & will get taxed on it.  You may be able to get away with saying you're just living from savings if you have that cash intended to buy a property liquid while you go through the registration process.  As for the risks involved in doing that I would advise seeking professional consultancy.

Best thing for you to do right now is directly contact the high commission/embassy for your shortlist of countries; explain your situation in as much detail as you can and request a list of requirements for becoming a resident based on that.

As you're thinking about purchasing a property in the destination you may find that you're ok in a lot of places even for the international criteria and I would imagine you can successfully pull off a move to most places but as it may be the case that it's favourable to be there by say, June 2021 then you want to know about that sooner rather than later.

Best of luck with it all. Let us know what you end up going with (and why)

[FreeBaseMace]

Thanks for the replies, lots of great advice. If this happens it will be long after Brexit so hoping that the southern European countries still value the UK pound and let people emigrate or buy second homes on similar terms to right now.

eightbo - you mentioned that I might need to register as Self Employed in Spain, from my understanding there is a 250 euro fee for this monthly, then tax above a certain threshold. Was hoping I could be classed as retired to avoid this. When playing poker professionally many years ago I had a discussion with the inland revenue and was registered as retired.

I have a lot to think about but I feel the plan is forming. For security and piece of mind keeping my UK house and buying outright abroad looks like the best plan. To go with this it could be possible to spend around 6 months in each property gaining rent for the UK house through the winter and a good rate for a European house during the summer. This would also mean I could retain full UK citizensionship with no complications from the new country.

Its important to aim for a goal in life and rather than simply going for being mortgage free, the aim of mortgage free with the a second home coming next and a possibility of spending the year in the sun is a target that me and my family can really get behind. To add to the goal our holidays can be based around possible countries to buy in which really adds purpose and will give a new dimension to any holiday by exploring different regions and viewing property.

Will keep this post updated with any developments.

[eightbo]

...
Its important to aim for a goal in life
...

Couldn't agree more.  I've been eyeing up dual citizenship for options in future, too.

...and what's the point grinding for success if you can't take a step back to enjoy it once in a while?

[wearthefoxhat]

Great idea trying for a dual citizenship, on balance, if I were in your shoes, would be to retain your UK status for tax purposes, as you already probably know, taxation on gambling winning is non existent in the UK.

Travelling to play poker is something I did a while ago, ie: WSOP, EPT...etc and being able to bring back 100% of the winning is a big plus. Travelling to trade is a trickier one though as already outlined by others.

With money laundering being a big subject (and the penalties companies face if ignored) will affect on line activity more over time. Just the use of Fiat and moving it around various bank accounts, can flag up issues.

Crypto is an alternative, (not on betfair obvs - yet) but will play more of a role as the price get higher and more popular. However, this area can be a minefield (capital gains) as no government can decide how to deal with it properly. Poker players move bitcoin around for cash/staking and betting purposes, allegedly...so it can offer some flexibility.

[Kalumpus]

I live Philippines now, a lovely Island called Panglao. I'm a few metres from the beach rent a small house £200 a month all in. Thats electric, water, internet,the lot. I trade the racing markets daily. Betfair legal here & the money you make goes a looooooooong way. I think if anyone considering a move abroad my advice would be to think outside the box. Its a small world.

[Derek27]

I live Philippines now, a lovely Island called Panglao. I'm a few metres from the beach rent a small house £200 a month all in. Thats electric, water, internet,the lot. I trade the racing markets daily. Betfair legal here & the money you make goes a looooooooong way. I think if anyone considering a move abroad my advice would be to think outside the box. Its a small world.

I've always fancied a working retirement in Australia but you've raised a good point - going somewhere where your money goes further yet trading on the same exchange means your wages can treble overnight! And Philippino women are amongst the most beautiful in the world.