MATCHBOOK: source of funds.

[Mr.Teeny]

Hi everybody,

Yet another “source of funds” thread. I see there are already a few on the forum, and I have read through them. And I also fear there are about to be many more.

Last week I was hit with the dreaded “source of funds request” from Matchbook. I have used them for a few years now, my account is in profit, and I have never made any large deposits ( all 3 figures at most), and have never done anything suspicious that may flag me up as a money launderer. I’ve basically only ever deposited a small amount, then tried to grow the bank by slowly trading it up. I’ve no experience of money laundering, though I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works.

Last week I was told that I had to provide proof of my source of funds, or the account would face restrictions ( I assume that means closing it). Would like to point out that Matchbook (to their credit) did allow me to withdraw my funds, as I feared the account would be locked and I would be denied access to them, as I had read that had been happening elsewhere.

The trouble is, it’s not that I am unwilling ( though this is a massive invasion of financial privacy, way beyond any KYC checks, that I have always happily complied with in the past. ). It is that due to their definitions of proving funds, I am unable to do so.

They want either :

Your last 3 wage slips and salary.
Your company accounts (if you own a small business)
Or details of any inheritance or financial gifts you may have received.

As it stands, I am unable to provide any of those. I haven’t had a wage slip since 2001, I don’t have my own company or any other source of income, and I have never inherited or received any gift money.

My matchbook profits or my own personal savings are not deemed acceptable. So I am now in the position where I am unable to prove my source of funds, and now face losing my account. I have tried to appeal and plea with them, though am as yet to receive any reply.

Losing my matchbook account would be a shame, though it isn’t the end of the world. It’s the hardest exchange to trade and has the poorest fill rate, in my opinion. However, things change, and I did enjoy trading on there, and it was definitely starting to improve.

What worries me more is if this becomes the new normal, and all the other firms are forced to follow suit. I don’t want to do any unnecessary scaremongering, as there is enough of that going on already. It could just be that these draconian measures are being forced on matchbook in the terms of them getting their licence back which they lost around this time last year. However, I find these measures deeply unfair. I feel I am being punished for gambling responsibly.

If this is a glimpse into the future and this is how it’s going to be for all firms from now on then that is deeply concerning. You should be able to sign a disclaimer stating that you are well aware of the risks involved in gambling and that you take full responsibility for your own actions. I understand the money laundering side of things, and why the KYC checks are needed. Though this is different level. This is a deep invasion into your personal financial privacy. It must be bordering on breaking privacy/ data laws, and I feel it is unacceptable.

If this is what “ JUSTICE FOR PUNTERS “ is going to look like, then I am already longing for a return to the dark days and terrible injustice of being able to deposit money in your own name, from your own bank account, to place your own bets, without this deep intrusion into the state of my financial affairs. This is just plain wrong, and I hope the people making the decisions in this review can see sense and put an end to it before it gets out of control.

[Vladimir CC]

pro gamblers/sports traders have considered themselves lucky being a tax free work because governments don't consider it as a real job.
now it slowly becomes a nightmare. not being able to justify where your money comes from because it's not considered a real job.
i'm sorry to read that you're going through this, especially when it s your only/main source of income. 3 options to choose from carelessly thrown at you out of the blue, as if we don't live in 2021 and there aren't that many ways of financial independence.

may some more experienced people on the forum be able to help you. in the year of 2021 this is truly unacceptable.

[LeTiss]

You haven't mentioned savings?

Is that not included?......some people have nest eggs that they dip into

[Mr.Teeny]

You haven't mentioned savings?

Is that not included?......some people have nest eggs that they dip into

As far as I can tell, my own personal savings are not applicable. Unless I have been gifted them, or inherited them, or can prove where they came from? As far as I am aware, personal savings / profits from matchbook are not deemed as a proof of source of funds.

They did say that winnings from a 3rd party betting account would be acceptable. Though it has to be something with your name on, and proof that it belongs to you. I know there is the premium charge page on betfair that gives your lifetime account, though it doesn’t have your name on, and could belong to anybody.

I am also aware that betfair have supplied people with lifetime winnings when asked for mortgage or rent purposes etc. Though I am not sure I am uncomfortable sharing all the ins and outs of what I have done on rival exchanges. Plus it is very vague as to what they would actually accept. I think I’d rather lose the account.

If you have had inheritance or gift money, you then have to prove the source of funds of the person who gifted you the money too.

It is a deep invasion of privacy, and I fear many people would rather just walk away than have to go through all that. I’d be happy to show my own personal savings etc, though I wouldnt be comfortable showing them somebody else’s. Not in the current climate, and not when you are told to protect your personal private information and data at all costs.

It just feels totally unnecessary, and if this is where we are heading then it now scares me deeply. I shit myself every time I see an email from betfair in my inbox, I’ve never been so happy and relieved to see that is is just tony calvins tips, and not a request for my source of funds.

I’m hoping this is just a one off, as I wasn’t too worried about the gambling review beforehand. However, if this is the way it’s going to be, then it is plain wrong, and something needs to be done now. The level of intrusion into personal finances is totally unacceptable, in my opinion.

[LeTiss]

That's a bloody nonsense isn't it!

How can savings not be included?
If I transfer money from a svaings account to my current account, how can that not be included as a source of income?

How does the saying go.....it's not what a man earns, but what he saves that makes him rich

[weemac]

Isn't it ironic that the source of one's funds could well be the very platform now demanding proof of said source? I once had to prove I'd sold a house many years earlier - sounds easy but was an utter nightmare. Having savings or a nest egg is no use in itself; you must be able to prove their origin.

Things won't get any better because the intrusion is into every area of our lives now - not just personal finances.

Money-laundering laws, anti-terrorism laws, fake news, travel restrictions, requirements for vaccination certification/passports, corporations arbitrarily censoring online people of whom they disapprove, enforced buy-in of prevailing cultural 'norms', disagreement with these norms being labelled as 'hate speech', everyday words and expressions you can no longer use, gradual removal of cash payments, erosion of free speech, AI bots deciding what you can or can't write, politicisation of sports, effeminization of males, disintegration of the family unit, re-writing/framing/redacting of history, invasive monitoring and recording of phone location and app usage, the collection, sharing, buying, selling, loss, theft and misuse of personal data, proposed betting restrictions, alcohol purchase and consumption restrictions, proposed food advertising and selling restrictions....sorry, but the list can only grow. (As I write, the list has indeed just grown - the postman just delivered 2 letters; one from the NHS stating that organ donation on one's death is now the norm - you must opt out if you don't want it. The other is from the council announcing reduced refuse collections to enforce a reduction in food wastage.)

Give it another 10 or 20 years and we'll all be blissfully happy.

[LeTiss]

Isn't it ironic that the source of one's funds could well be the very platform now demanding proof of said source? I once had to prove I'd sold a house many years earlier - sounds easy but was an utter nightmare. Having savings or a nest egg is no use in itself; you must be able to prove their origin.

Things won't get any better because the intrusion is into every area of our lives now - not just personal finances.

Money-laundering laws, anti-terrorism laws, fake news, travel restrictions, requirements for vaccination certification/passports, corporations arbitrarily censoring online people of whom they disapprove, enforced buy-in of prevailing cultural 'norms', disagreement with these norms being labelled as 'hate speech', everyday words and expressions you can no longer use, gradual removal of cash payments, erosion of free speech, AI bots deciding what you can or can't write, politicisation of sports, effeminization of males, disintegration of the family unit, re-writing/framing/redacting of history, invasive monitoring and recording of phone location and app usage, the collection, sharing, buying, selling, loss, theft and misuse of personal data, proposed betting restrictions, alcohol purchase and consumption restrictions, proposed food advertising and selling restrictions....sorry, but the list can only grow. (As I write, the list has indeed just grown - the postman just delivered 2 letters; one from the NHS stating that organ donation on one's death is now the norm - you must opt out if you don't want it. The other is from the council announcing reduced refuse collections to enforce a reduction in food wastage.)

Give it another 10 or 20 years and we'll all be blissfully happy.

Great post. Depressing, but entirely accurate

[Euler]

I just googled source of funds for another read up and curiously found solicitor advice that they would accept gambling winnings as a source of funds: -

https://www.samconveyancing.co.uk/news/ ... #stringent

[LeTiss]

I just googled source of funds for another read up and curiously found solicitor advice that they would accept gambling winnings as a source of funds: -

https://www.samconveyancing.co.uk/news/ ... #stringent

I can understand stringent checks like that when spending £250,000+ on a house, but when someone just wants to have a £50 bet it seems an absolute nonsense

[Euler]

It is, bookies seem to be getting pretty anal about it as well.

[LeTiss]

It's a slippery slope though, Peter.....where does it all stop?

Will people need to supply proof of income to Tesco when they pop in and buy a lottery ticket?
That will kill the lottry because the vast majority do it to change their lives

What about those just getting their shopping and using a credit card because their wages don't cover the bills currently?
Why don't they have to provide a source of income to show they can afford what's in their basket?

This is like something from a Communist country

[Mr.Teeny]

I just googled source of funds for another read up and curiously found solicitor advice that they would accept gambling winnings as a source of funds: -

https://www.samconveyancing.co.uk/news/ ... #stringent

I was told that gambling winnings are acceptable, though only from a third party. For some reason my winning on their site don’t count, despite only ever making a small number of small deposits.

And this is a small account. I’m not betting in thousands or making lots of large deposits and withdrawals. If I was money laundering I would be doing it for a children’s front garden lemonade sale, the amounts are that small. And I am clearly not a problem gambler.

It is incredibly vague as to what would be accepted, the amounts, and the dates of the winnings. I had a nice trifecta up at royal ascot many moons ago which I kept a photocopy of the ticket of. I wonder if that would count.

As I said in the opening post I didn’t want to start any further unnecessary scaremongering, though it has to be a concern now. It could just be that this is the ridiculous result of the terms of the gambling commission giving them their licence back.

However, if this is rolled out more widely, it’s going to cause a lot of unnecessary trouble and upset for people who have never had a problem with gambling, never played an online slots game, or never spun a virtual roulette wheel. This one size fits all approach makes no sense at all.

If betfair are forced to do the same, and people can only use winnings from a rival site as proof of funds then a lot of people are going to be in trouble proving their source of funds, as I imagine most traders use betfair exclusively.


It just all seems totally unnecessary. People need to be allowed to take responsibility for their own actions. The do gooders on Twitter and the like have a lot to answer for.

Never has the expression “be careful what you wish for” felt more appropriate.

[Euler]

The last trip overseas that I did, pre-pandemic now of course. I was using a multi currency card when it was declined unexpectedly.

The bank only had 'live chat' but they were taking 24 hours to respond to even a simple question.

Anyhow it was a source of funds issue. I had loaded up the card before I left to ensure I had no issues and covered all costs and then some. They were querying the deposit and wanted proof.

The trouble was, I was half way up a mountain and 6000 miles away. There was no way I could provide any evidence and I was completely hamstrung and they didn't budge an inch. I had to survive without a card for a few days until I returned to my staging point when I had alternative cards.

But transferring the money to them was a total waste as I couldn't use the card anymore. I cancelled the service when I returned home but it took ages to get the money back and they kept asking why I couldn't provide evidence until then, so I sent them a picture of me giving them the finger at 10,000ft

[jimibt]

I cancelled the service when I returned home but it took ages to get the money back and they kept asking why I couldn't provide evidence until then, so I sent them a picture of me giving them the finger at 10,000ft

amazing what oxygen starvation to the brain does to us - lol

[Derek27]

The way things are going the bookies and exchanges are going to start losing customers and feel the damage themselves.