Or is it that yet again Betfair's suspension of markets is inadequate
How this is allowed to go by without any comeback is amazing to me.
(Not that it made any difference to me)
Could they see into the future?
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andyfuller
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- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Could the people who laid Sirocco Breeze 'before' the off at as much as 10.0 see into the future
Or is it that yet again Betfair's suspension of markets is inadequate
How this is allowed to go by without any comeback is amazing to me.
(Not that it made any difference to me)
Or is it that yet again Betfair's suspension of markets is inadequate
How this is allowed to go by without any comeback is amazing to me.
(Not that it made any difference to me)
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oddstrader
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:55 pm
whoever it was i bet there was a smell in the room with 1/2 a furlong to go! 
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andyfuller
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Another great example of this there in the 17.40. The fav Sahafh was laid massively in the last seconds in the pre inplay market upto huge odds considering where it was trading. Then the market goes inplay and a second later we see the horse rearing up and losing all chance - hmmmmmm
Andy,andyfuller wrote:Another great example of this there in the 17.40. The fav Sahafh was laid massively in the last seconds in the pre inplay market upto huge odds considering where it was trading. Then the market goes inplay and a second later we see the horse rearing up and losing all chance - hmmmmmm
This takes us back to the courtside technology discussion on the US Open thread
That's clearly another example of traders beating the clock through their location and equipment
Hi Guys
Just to add to this...
I posted a similar theme in another post ( I was talking about taking my ipad to a live event and asking whether there may be some advantage..)..
Anyway, didnt get chance to go to a racecourse meeting (yet), but I did take my Ipad into a bookmakers to watch BA (on a VPS) and SIS pictures in running..
In Summary, although I suspect that a lot of punters bet in play on SIS, it was way too risky in my opinion. There is a very small advantage and I'm sure you could make some money, I could just envisage taking a large hit at some point. It is very tight.
I would still like to test the theory on a live event sitting amongst the crowd though..
Thanks
Peter
Just to add to this...
I posted a similar theme in another post ( I was talking about taking my ipad to a live event and asking whether there may be some advantage..)..
Anyway, didnt get chance to go to a racecourse meeting (yet), but I did take my Ipad into a bookmakers to watch BA (on a VPS) and SIS pictures in running..
In Summary, although I suspect that a lot of punters bet in play on SIS, it was way too risky in my opinion. There is a very small advantage and I'm sure you could make some money, I could just envisage taking a large hit at some point. It is very tight.
I would still like to test the theory on a live event sitting amongst the crowd though..
Thanks
Peter
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JollyGreen
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I have tested this on track and with ATR coverage you would have a big advantage over everyone else. If you could get broadband at the track then you'd be in front of the SIS trading room boys too!
I ran some tests once and found the delay between what happens on the course and what you see on ATR is as much as 6.5 seconds! That was a couple of years ago but I can see no reason why that should be different these days.
I have also been challenged on track and asked not to use my laptop. I am not sure what the rules are now but it is generally frowned upon if you take revenue off course. I am not sure if that is a rule or a legal thing but I know it happens as I have been approached a couple of times.
I once called a winner of a race to someone behind a PC. I could see the horse was ahead and even as it crossed the line we traded at 1.5!!! Now that is rare as it was a 3 way tight finish but I could still see the winner!!
I don't see how Betfair can stop this or if they are interested in stopping it? They win no matter what so I cannot see them being that interested. Admittedly it could have a long term impact as people who get burned are going to clear off when they find out why!
I ran some tests once and found the delay between what happens on the course and what you see on ATR is as much as 6.5 seconds! That was a couple of years ago but I can see no reason why that should be different these days.
I have also been challenged on track and asked not to use my laptop. I am not sure what the rules are now but it is generally frowned upon if you take revenue off course. I am not sure if that is a rule or a legal thing but I know it happens as I have been approached a couple of times.
I once called a winner of a race to someone behind a PC. I could see the horse was ahead and even as it crossed the line we traded at 1.5!!! Now that is rare as it was a 3 way tight finish but I could still see the winner!!
I don't see how Betfair can stop this or if they are interested in stopping it? They win no matter what so I cannot see them being that interested. Admittedly it could have a long term impact as people who get burned are going to clear off when they find out why!
Hi JG
I must admit I only looked at one race that day in the bookies (and other than SIS I dont know which station it was broadcast on). Maybe I'll have a look again?
The Ipad is so small and looks very inconspicuous (esp in a black wallet)
6.5 secs is a lifetime in this game!
Regards
Peter
PS I sometimes get the chance to get to Old Trafford, has anyone got any views as to whether this would be advantageous trading it at the event?? Thanks
I must admit I only looked at one race that day in the bookies (and other than SIS I dont know which station it was broadcast on). Maybe I'll have a look again?
The Ipad is so small and looks very inconspicuous (esp in a black wallet)
6.5 secs is a lifetime in this game!
Regards
Peter
PS I sometimes get the chance to get to Old Trafford, has anyone got any views as to whether this would be advantageous trading it at the event?? Thanks
I would of thought its obvious... if your told not to use your laptop or i-pad oncourse then invest in a bluetooth headset and a friend to sit on the other end with all the stuff he needs, i might be wrong but i thought there was firms running this sort of operation for huge sums already?? the same with price moves on-course before the course bookies hedge on the exchange moving the price south... is this not why we see curley runners half in price in the last 5 minutes from time to time?
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SilentDave
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I think you can generally get away wtih a laptop at a live event - the worst I can imagine is someone asking you to stop using it.
I went to Windsor for a monday evening meeting recently and just sat at one of the tables on the lawn near the winning post and sat there openly trading away - there were 2 of us with our laptops and nobody said a thing. Did the same at Wincanton some months back althoguh the only place I could get a 3G signal was right at the top of the stand - the plus side of this was that there was nobody around!
I'm going to Brisbane Road on Saturday to see if I get any joy trading an unmanaged football market in-running. Knowing my luck it will be a 0-0 bore draw!
I went to Windsor for a monday evening meeting recently and just sat at one of the tables on the lawn near the winning post and sat there openly trading away - there were 2 of us with our laptops and nobody said a thing. Did the same at Wincanton some months back althoguh the only place I could get a 3G signal was right at the top of the stand - the plus side of this was that there was nobody around!
I'm going to Brisbane Road on Saturday to see if I get any joy trading an unmanaged football market in-running. Knowing my luck it will be a 0-0 bore draw!
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Irish Rover
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- Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:33 am
[quote="andyfuller"]
Or is it that yet again Betfair's suspension of markets is inadequate
What are betfairs rules on suspension?
More often than not market suspension and the off on ATR/RUK are instantaneous, which means Betfairs suspension is a good 4-7 seconds behind the actual off.
Or is it that yet again Betfair's suspension of markets is inadequate
What are betfairs rules on suspension?
More often than not market suspension and the off on ATR/RUK are instantaneous, which means Betfairs suspension is a good 4-7 seconds behind the actual off.
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Hi Chuckchuck536 wrote:I would of thought its obvious... if your told not to use your laptop or i-pad oncourse then invest in a bluetooth headset and a friend to sit on the other end with all the stuff he needs, i might be wrong but i thought there was firms running this sort of operation for huge sums already?? the same with price moves on-course before the course bookies hedge on the exchange moving the price south... is this not why we see curley runners half in price in the last 5 minutes from time to time?
That is what I did when I mentioned calling a winner in close finish between 3 runners. I used a bluetooth headset and called the race to a friend.
However, it isn't that easy to do. You need someone at the course who can read the race and give clear instructions. You then need a competent person behind the screen of a PC who can get the money into the market. Trying to call a race isn't easy but it can work if you have defined strategies. There must be complete trust between the two parties as any doubt or questions will negate any time advantage. I was doing this years ago and I talked to an old gambling buddy of mine. He was very interested and we had some real successes. He had a very open mind but when we tried to get other "old school" gambling types they just laughed and claimed it wasn't possible. One of them said to me "you cannot beat the boys down at Lovell's they're even using 1 click software"...I wanted to reply with some sarcastic comment but I refrained.
The movement on Curley horses is not really caused by the same thing. Barney is well known so once word gets out that one is off the money comes from everywhere - and rarely gets left behind!
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JollyGreen
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- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Some courses will eject you, some will ask you to stop and others will simply turn a blind eye or not even see you.SilentDave wrote:I think you can generally get away wtih a laptop at a live event - the worst I can imagine is someone asking you to stop using it.
I went to Windsor for a monday evening meeting recently and just sat at one of the tables on the lawn near the winning post and sat there openly trading away - there were 2 of us with our laptops and nobody said a thing. Did the same at Wincanton some months back althoguh the only place I could get a 3G signal was right at the top of the stand - the plus side of this was that there was nobody around!
I'm going to Brisbane Road on Saturday to see if I get any joy trading an unmanaged football market in-running. Knowing my luck it will be a 0-0 bore draw!
I was at a course with a good friend and we sat in hospitality with our laptops. We couldn't get 3G but there was a WPA wi-fi network available. I asked them for a password and within 5 minutes they gave it to us. We happily sat there and traded - both normally and using our time advantage. We even had people watching us looking
as we explained what we were doing.I also know of people of who were forcibly ejected from tennis tournaments! However, I think tennis is a subject high on the "controversial list" so that possibly meant court side stewards were on the lookout.
Good luck to the Orient - I hope there are a lot of goals!!
PS Assuming you are an Orient fan that is!!
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JollyGreen
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Well I knew a guy who worked at Betfair and asked him what feeds they used. He said that sometimes they only had the same feeds as we get, ATR etc. I was amazed but he claimed it was true.Irish Rover wrote:andyfuller wrote:
Or is it that yet again Betfair's suspension of markets is inadequate
What are betfairs rules on suspension?
More often than not market suspension and the off on ATR/RUK are instantaneous, which means Betfairs suspension is a good 4-7 seconds behind the actual off.
Before everyone starts going crazy, I am only repeating what he told me. HOwever, that could explain some of the weird suspension issues.
I watched a race at Chepstow once and the race went off on ATR before the race was suspended by Betfair!! I was shocked so I decided to check what happened when they crossed the line. Betfair suspended it before they crossed the winning line.
I can only assume the operator at Betfair was in the toilet, spilt his coffee or missed the suspend button.
Unfortunately I did not take advantage of the late suspension but that was for a very sound reason. If Betfair fail to suspend a market they can void all in running transactions. That wouldn't be so bad but it comes down to the correct "off" time and I have been burned in the past where my off time differed from theirs. We all know that there is no arguing and you simply lose your money. I was well and truly mullered when this happened at Market Rasen last year...once bitten twice shy and all that!!
JollyGreen,
I'm not a racing fanatic, but what happens with on-course bookmakers these days?
Do they have people watching the exchanges & informing them of movers, or do Betfair prices reflect or react to what the bookies are offering?
If they are shortening a selection on track, is there not a window where you could back it on Betfair, before traders sat at home knows it's even changed?
I'm not a racing fanatic, but what happens with on-course bookmakers these days?
Do they have people watching the exchanges & informing them of movers, or do Betfair prices reflect or react to what the bookies are offering?
If they are shortening a selection on track, is there not a window where you could back it on Betfair, before traders sat at home knows it's even changed?