Bath 4:40 - False favourite?

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JollyGreen
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am

I looked at this race and was slightly confused by the prices on offer. They have made Shianda the favourite and as hard as I have tried, I cannot understand why? :?

She is a 3yo filly by Kyllachy out of a Salse mare. That breeding generally suggest a sprinter or occasional miler and the stats for the sire definitely reinforce that view. The race today is 12f (-76yards) and Kyllachy's offspring have recorded just 4 wins at that distance. If you drop it back to 11f then it rises to a paltry 8 winners...not great eh?? If you then drop back to 7-9f you find 94 winners and at 5-6f you find 257!! It would therefore seem quite strange that this filly is running at 12f and is being made favourite.

I've written before that a field of 10 sprinters contesting a long distance race has to produce a winner but that doesn't make them a stayer it just makes them the best stayer amongst the sprinters contesting that race!

We all know that you get the odd "freak" that seems to defy these stats and breeding but would you be interested in 4.10 about a horse when you know the above stats? I know I certainly wouldn't!

I watched her last 5 runs and I could not see anything that suggests she would definitely be better at this extra distance. She does look very one paced and perhaps she's had problems at home? What I generally find with horses like this is that people are fooled when they watch these horses running races where they appear to be staying on at the finish and need further. When you get a horse from a sprinter they are precocious and Kyllachy is known for producing precocious types. Basically they have a headstart on their peers when they are young and this carries them through. However, many people judge them on this and then assume they will get further. As the horses mature, the less precocious types start to catch up and suddenly the whole picture changes.

This filly has a full sister called Shanzu who is now 5yo and she also have never won at this trip!

I am not saying this horse cannot win, I am trying to pose a simple question "would you back this horse and be confident of a victory now you know the above?" My answer would be a definite NO and it would only change to a maybe if the price was 12-16! With the bigger price I could risk my money in the hope this horse would beat a bad bunch!

I believe the booking of Richard Hughes for a trainer like Gary Moore on a horse stepping up in trip causes alarm bells to ring for punters. They assume something must be known about this horse and why would a top jockey like Richard Hughes ride if they didn't expect it to win? I won't bother with that one!

This horse might win easily but at 4.10 you cannot sensibly support horses of this type and expect to be profitable long term.
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JollyGreen
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am

Well I got that one wrong in terms of the result but to be honest the race was a farce. They dawdled for the 9f and then sprinted for the line. I didn't press stop on my watch so I didn't get the race time. I will have to check the Racing Post for the time to see how it compared to standard.

If that horse runs again against true 12f horses I will be reaching for the straight lay button. You generally find they start as a shorter priced favourite next time out because punters will think they have found the key to her.

I was amazed that punters kept backing on her but was happy with the drift on Now What as a result.
mick1512
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:35 pm

We all get it wrong from time to time JollyGreen. The good thing with his game is that we can be wrong more often than not but still in profit in the long term.

Personally I am always pleased to see someone putting up their thoughts and analysis on the racing. I post my own thoughts on four different blogs if anyone is interested in having a look.

www.those2oppose.blogspot.com
www.formhorses.blogspot.com
www.longshots2010.blogspot.com
www.valuebetsteamers.blogspot.com

Four very different methods hence the number of blogs. All going well so far but only been posting in advance of racing for a few weeks.
Melsey
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:06 am

JG,

I also like the fact that keeping an eye out for specific horses, their odds movements and of course watching the result adds another 'dimension' to my trading day.

Checking the forum to see if you have posted any thoughts has almost made it's way on to my daily pre-the off trading routine...

It's very considerate of you to spend the time to post, and I'm sure that there are a number of us that appreciate it...

Thanks,

Melsey
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JollyGreen
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am

Melsey wrote:JG,

I also like the fact that keeping an eye out for specific horses, their odds movements and of course watching the result adds another 'dimension' to my trading day.

Checking the forum to see if you have posted any thoughts has almost made it's way on to my daily pre-the off trading routine...

It's very considerate of you to spend the time to post, and I'm sure that there are a number of us that appreciate it...

Thanks,

Melsey
Hi

Very kind...I am glad you enjoy the posts! I started doing it in the hope it may help some "non racing" types get a different point of view on the markets. I don't want people to take up pure gambling just to try and get a feel for what is happening. You put it very well when you said it adds a new "dimension".

If you can get a better feel for why a horse is drifting or steaming then it can help you from a trading angle. It won't always go as planned but then again does anything in life? The great thing about trading is you can simply abstain if it doesn't behave as you expected or you can go with the market.

One thing that is important to bear in mind is the market is always correct. If a horse steams in price and finishes last or if a horse drifts like mad and wins hard held, the market was always correct. The market moves according to the money and from a pure trading aspect, the result is immaterial.

If I have found a horse that I think is a likely winner I will have a bet and I'll keep it totally separate to my trading. If the price drifts I am happy and I know most people would think the complete opposite. If I have found a horse, it is often for reasons outside of the normal realm. If the price drifts then it means others haven't spotted it. I have actually placed another bet when the price became bigger and very tempting.

Only yesterday I backed a horse at 6.00 and it drifted out to 9.00 pre-race. If you read the comments in any of the racing media, it had no chance. If you listened to TV pundits, it had no chance. When it went to 9.00 I backed it again and trebled my stake...it hosed up!

Now they don't always win but as Mick1512 correctly pointed out, you can get it wrong and still make a profit long term.

I know a lot of people who have taken their racing knowledge and tried to translate it into trading. The biggest problem is not being able to accept what I said above..."the market is always correct!" I have seen people who refuses to back a horse that is being smashed into by punters. They cannot accept that a horse they think will lose or is incorrectly priced is steaming in. Their stubbornness simply costs them money. If I forecast a drift and the price steams in then I am more than happy to back it and trade out at a lower price, the opposite applies if one drifts and I expected it to steam.

I will try and post up more analysis provided I have the time. When the NH kicks in full time I will be able to offer better analysis as I prefer the NH...famous last words..queue the mistakes :D
mick1512
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:35 pm

I totally agree about opinions, the markets and different strategies.

The two I opposed today were both smashed up in the markets and I traded them pre-race for profit, backing and trading off as the prices tumbled. Separate to this I layed both as I believed they were unlikely to win. Today everything worked out perfectly for me as both were unplaced. On another day they could have won and I would have lost on the lay bets but still won by trading pre-race.
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