Hey there everyone, I have been contemplating whether or not to click submit on this for fear of upsetting someone.
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This post is not meant to upset or offend anyone who reads it or even just hears about it, it is just a plea for help and probably mirrors the thoughts and worries of more than a few people out here.
I have been a subscriber of Betangel for nearly two years (I started off with Trader on my scalping journey before upgrading to Pro) and I think it is an amazing piece of software and coupled with the support from you lovely people of this forum makes Betangel absolutely astounding.
I started my journey with Betangel as I said about 2 years ago and came from a Matched Betting background before that. I started with scalping horses with mixed success and even bought a course which didn't really help as the content is now old albeit the concept is still valid.
So 2 years later I have been scalping horses with mixed success, I tend to do ok and then get wiped out by a bad trade (generally a fav that drifts off into space). I am learning by some mistakes as I don't now chase the drifters and throw more money at a losing trade.
I have realised that a lot of my trades I am making based upon what the market is doing then getting beaten up by bots where the money is coming and going in a second and my reactions are just not quick enough!
Ok so there is a point to this....
So many of the example automation files are now 10+ years old and although they are put up for free and just as general examples it's nearly impossible to learn what is going wrong with these files when testing them if they were out of date maybe a year or less after they were uploaded (Dallas you are a star and this is not a pop at you). Its a bit like driving a car, the round disky thing makes it go left and right, the pedals are clutch, stop and go, the stick thing changes gear etc etc. You then get into a car and somebody has mixed up EVERYTHING and just when you are figuring out that the indicators operate your windows etc etc you hear that it will be changing again sometime soon!
So where do people like me start? How do we have a shot at goal when we're blindfolded, the goal is moving along with the spot.
I am not asking for anything that takes profit from anyone out there, I want to do my own learning but from a position that gives me a base to work from that is somewhat current and allows me to just look forward. I know horses (I've spent months downloading different automation files and tweaking according to the comments) and have spent many weeks testing versions of Greybot to understand the greyhound markets. I have gained a lot of knowledge and experience in both practice and real modes but I'm struggling to trust what I have learned because I cant move forward. I just don't know what I don't know.
This is not a rant, or a pop at anyone as the quality and amount of FREE advise on here is amazing and from a bunch of amazing people who don't get paid for it. Its just a plea for some grounding advice that will allow me to move forward, learn, be profitable and pass on my experience in the future.
Anyway thanks for reading my "war and peace"
Ian
I'm banging my head against the wall
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NotBothered
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:40 am
I will give you my 2 cents - because I agree with everything you said.
It is bordering on impossible to win with the information as presented -- without settings - databases and strategy you may as well forget it.
Personally it comes down to what your highest level of knowledge is -- back lay pre race - in play - sports whatever that is
and then finding some strategy that can work in that environment - and then doing the research and figuring out what settings to use.
Either you need to modify something existing or build something from scratch.
+ I guess what country your trying to deal with.
Whats your best Market ?
It is bordering on impossible to win with the information as presented -- without settings - databases and strategy you may as well forget it.
Personally it comes down to what your highest level of knowledge is -- back lay pre race - in play - sports whatever that is
and then finding some strategy that can work in that environment - and then doing the research and figuring out what settings to use.
Either you need to modify something existing or build something from scratch.
+ I guess what country your trying to deal with.
Whats your best Market ?
Have you anaylsed the races you are losing on in order to cut them out of the mix?
The automation and other help is there to help you maximise your strategy and build on it, but you have to have a base to build from.
The market isn't there just to gift money to anybody that wants it, you have to earn it and find the place you best sit within the market. Some of that will be personal preference and tolerance to risk and so on.
Just start with a simple base and work out from there.
My favourite piece of trading advice: -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ
The automation and other help is there to help you maximise your strategy and build on it, but you have to have a base to build from.
The market isn't there just to gift money to anybody that wants it, you have to earn it and find the place you best sit within the market. Some of that will be personal preference and tolerance to risk and so on.
Just start with a simple base and work out from there.
My favourite piece of trading advice: -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ
I’m not sure the advice can get any better than that!Euler wrote: ↑Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:32 pmHave you anaylsed the races you are losing on in order to cut them out of the mix?
The automation and other help is there to help you maximise your strategy and build on it, but you have to have a base to build from.
The market isn't there just to gift money to anybody that wants it, you have to earn it and find the place you best sit within the market. Some of that will be personal preference and tolerance to risk and so on.
Just start with a simple base and work out from there.
My favourite piece of trading advice: -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10570
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
I'd suggest in certain circumstances going a step further and looking at the bets that made up the market PL. Especially true for in-running where bets to stop losses or even to take gains may be long term - EV. Or ones placed in certain periods of the race. With tight margins the marginal differences matter. It might not always be necessary to throw the baby out with the bath water.
There aren't many trading subjects you can do credit to in a few paragraphs
Even finding out which markets are losers is a job in itself for a given sample size. Chasing trends can be a problem on results just as much as on price movement.-
jamesedwards
- Posts: 4370
- Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:16 pm
Bet Angel is not a get rich quick scheme. It is a tool that allows you to view, analyse, and act on market data as fast as possible. These days thousands of individuals and organisations are using some sort of api and the popular markets are pretty much perfect which makes establishing a consistent edge very difficult.
Establish a niche, something you enjoy preferably because you will need to spend weeks doing nothing else. Learn those markets inside out. What drives price changes? How does the market react to different scenarios? Who may have inside info and when? Theorise ways it might be possible to take advantage of these scenarios. Experiment and be prepared to tweak to death. Once you have something that looks close to breaking even then work on increasing the value of winning trades and decreasing the loss of losing trades.
Establish a niche, something you enjoy preferably because you will need to spend weeks doing nothing else. Learn those markets inside out. What drives price changes? How does the market react to different scenarios? Who may have inside info and when? Theorise ways it might be possible to take advantage of these scenarios. Experiment and be prepared to tweak to death. Once you have something that looks close to breaking even then work on increasing the value of winning trades and decreasing the loss of losing trades.
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NotBothered
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:40 am
Just my fresh take on this is - he is just wanting one solid concrete method/idea to take and run with it - that people know works.
And all of the answers we have posted are kind of wishy washy - and not getting to the heart of the question.
Trading Advice / + everything else is great but the heart of the problem is direction.
Even me I know the answer but I just hesitate to say just do this and that - download this - modify that - hire this person - run it on these races or the direct information he needs to get going.
Maybe forget all this more complicated information and ideas and start with something simple - scrape the odds of the biggest bookmaker you deal with into a spreadsheet - and compare the prices to betfair.
So for example the Bookmaker may have the price at $1.70 and on Betfair the price will be $2.48 .. so keep track of these are they are bet and layed - and see if you can see work out a back and lay strategy based on the prices - could you trade $2.48 and get out at $2.30 before the race starts - or is the bookmaker price misleading and the Betfair price closer to the true price
Look at the Jockey Challenge markets and see who the favorites are - and if one of those top 2 jockeys is riding the horse that maybe a signal to back the horse ... if its a weak jockey - not in the top of the market then do not back it and maybe those are lays early in the market to back later.
Perhaps look at the horses form - and see whether it has won over the distance before and what prices it paid in those events.
I personally do not sit there and grind it out in this manner - looking for spots to take advantage of -- but I could see if you spent some time and just looked at some factors that influenced price it could help you.
Another one would be if you subscribed to Punting Form Ratings or another Ratings Service and then compare the prices to Betfair - I think Betfairs Model that you can download - they use Punting Form data in that - but you could build your own back/lay model from something like that.
Excluding this idea - then you would need to pick and idea - and start organizing some data.
Anyway leave it up to you and good luck.
And all of the answers we have posted are kind of wishy washy - and not getting to the heart of the question.
Trading Advice / + everything else is great but the heart of the problem is direction.
Even me I know the answer but I just hesitate to say just do this and that - download this - modify that - hire this person - run it on these races or the direct information he needs to get going.
Maybe forget all this more complicated information and ideas and start with something simple - scrape the odds of the biggest bookmaker you deal with into a spreadsheet - and compare the prices to betfair.
So for example the Bookmaker may have the price at $1.70 and on Betfair the price will be $2.48 .. so keep track of these are they are bet and layed - and see if you can see work out a back and lay strategy based on the prices - could you trade $2.48 and get out at $2.30 before the race starts - or is the bookmaker price misleading and the Betfair price closer to the true price
Look at the Jockey Challenge markets and see who the favorites are - and if one of those top 2 jockeys is riding the horse that maybe a signal to back the horse ... if its a weak jockey - not in the top of the market then do not back it and maybe those are lays early in the market to back later.
Perhaps look at the horses form - and see whether it has won over the distance before and what prices it paid in those events.
I personally do not sit there and grind it out in this manner - looking for spots to take advantage of -- but I could see if you spent some time and just looked at some factors that influenced price it could help you.
Another one would be if you subscribed to Punting Form Ratings or another Ratings Service and then compare the prices to Betfair - I think Betfairs Model that you can download - they use Punting Form data in that - but you could build your own back/lay model from something like that.
Excluding this idea - then you would need to pick and idea - and start organizing some data.
Anyway leave it up to you and good luck.
OP don't worry about upsetting anyone, you have full right to be pissed off, literally everyone has struggled at some point.
The simple fact is there's not enough cake to go around, you absolutely have to fight for your own piece lest you end up like Milton there : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctOBMFznkto
The simple fact is there's not enough cake to go around, you absolutely have to fight for your own piece lest you end up like Milton there : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctOBMFznkto
