Hi
Peter i know this is a big ask and we have had a recent make over in BA but can BA put on a training mode in the next upgrade. There is another trading platform out there am sure you and your team are aware of who have released it, was tempted to have a go on it but i am so use to BA and the journey it took me to get comfatable with it i just cannot do another journey of trading so what do you say
The other trading platform is great for testing automated theorys. It would be good if Betangel could build into their program the same platform for building triggers because everyone including me cant do it in excel. However for trading horses I think you really need to feel your bets being matched rather than just putting money in and it being accepted as filled, as it will give you a false P/L
I think its a matter of context in the trading simulation. If you try and shove £5000 into a market where the values are in the £100's then obviously the simulation is going to break down and be inaccurate.
If you use bets of £100 in a market where thousands are queued up at the current price then its going to be more accurate and very probably a useful training aid.
We have played around with the concept of 'training' modes before in the product but they have all proved about as useful as a chocolate teapot for testing strategies, they just don't work. The mere process of placing an order in the market influences how it behaves so using fake orders just doesn't work in practice.
I can see some of the benefits of using a simluation mode to get familiar to using some aspects of the software so we can examine it again for sure. But be warned that in when using a training mode, practice just doesn't make perfect. In our experiance it does completely the opposite, this is why we have resisted putting one into the product in the past. That and that fact that minimum stakes are so low on the exchanges. It's better to put something through than nothing.
I should clarify by simulate I don't mean simulate the market data, just the bets.
To be honest I'm a little torn between knowing it just isn't going to be accurate for largish bets and wanting to be able to practice with stakes of £50 or so without getting hit for a fiver when I cock it up royally I find when ever I increase my stakes by a little I always regress a bit before I get the hang of the new stake size. Has it been your experience that even at low stake values training mode is of no worth Euler?
with repect to anyone who desires a training "mode".
bet angel/peter, if you do put in a training "mode" can you please isolate or make it separate from the main bet angel programme, or that it is optional to download this part of the programme. I have used bet angel for years and have slowly seen it fill up with features and tabs and screens etc, I do not want a screen/feature/settings etc that I see no conceivable use for. A loyal long standing user.
to75ne wrote:with repect to anyone who desires a training "mode".
bet angel/peter, if you do put in a training "mode" can you please isolate or make it separate from the main bet angel programme, or that it is optional to download this part of the programme. I have used bet angel for years and have slowly seen it fill up with features and tabs and screens etc, I do not want a screen/feature/settings etc that I see no conceivable use for. A loyal long standing user.
Surely the more tools you have to do the Job the better. I was looking at some old BA Tutorial,s with the old version with all the square green keys, am glad i came in when that was long gone, it looks so bare, it didnt have the Fill or Kill seconds settings. Training would improve dicipline and give a real feel for the markets. With all due respect you cannot hold back technology if we did we would still have old smokey betting shops with the commentry speaker in the corner
i have no objection to more tools features etc as long as i do not have to have a cluttered screen, and i can switch off/not install features i do not require.
i have been trading horses a long time. my set up as changed little in that time. biggest change i made was trading on the ladder. (there was no ladder when i started). i don’t use off setting etc, dutching, bookmaking, autobets/triggers.
guardian i only use at its basic level (there was no guardian when i started), the only advanced chart i use is ltp set for about 1 hour instead of the betfair chart. and an excel sheet for closing out at off time on the irish races (there was no excel integration when i started). that’s about it.
i could go back and trade of the grid if i wish; sometimes i do, just to see if i can still do it.
i can quite easily trade (and stay in profit) without excel, guardian, advance charts, they are just handy but not essential in my opinion.
i don’t agree the more tools the better.
more tools do not allow you to "read" the markets better. experience and being able to use the core tools will enable you to get better.
The more bells and whistles are just distractions. I do understand that ba is not just a pre off horse racing tool, its designed to trade most sports markets, but as I said I don’t want a cluttered screen, loads of useless menus, buttons, features etc (my opinion). If they are there I would wish an option making them not visible/ or optional to install.
But the crux of the thread. There is a training option, its called the minimum stake allowed by betfair.
Training mode will never be the same as real trading.
But, I've tested Evo's training mode, and I can tell you, in pre-race and other liquid markets it's very close to reality. Even in training mode you will see that sometimes your money is only partially matched - so it's even more real than using minimum stakes.
It's also good for Football and Tennis Training mode only works bad on markets with holes.
to75ne wrote: There is a training option, its called the minimum stake allowed by betfair.
Disagree, with all due respect when you use bigger stakes, the behavour of the market to get matched is different. £2 wouldnt move a price where as £1000 + does. When you train to walk a tight rope at 10 foot, raise it to 50ft and tell me there is not a difference in how you will walk that rope. Most of the features on BA are now switchable, but a training feature would save newbies alot of capital.
“but a training feature would save newbie’s alot of capital”
that is quite a disturbing statement.
If any newbie (or anyone) is losing a lot of capital I assume that is what is implied by above statement. Then they really should stop, think things out, get help. The losses incurred by learning using minimum stakes are very small, they should not equate to “a lot of capital”. I hope I have misunderstood the statement.
I think spikeybob as made a very good point, which I fully agree with.
I find when ever I increase my stakes by a little I always regress a bit before I get the hang of the new stake size. Has it been your experience that even at low stake values training mode is of no worth Euler?
