Greening up YouTube

[purso]

Hi

I have watched so many of peters fantastic videos where he scalps successfully and then greens up.

What is the benefit of greening up if you have bet and layer successfully on the 1 market¿

[ODPaul82]

You spread profit across every single selection so you don't care who goes on to win.
If you didn't then you still need that selection to go on and win the market.

[purso]

If the horse is backed at 2.0 and laid at 1.8 for example you are covered whatever the outcome, I must be missing something as I see Peter carry out successful trades and then green up?

[Tuco]

...yes, you are missing something!

[Trader724]

The term "greening up" comes from the Betfair interface, where potential profits are typically displayed in green figures. When you have successfully "greened up," all possible outcomes for that horse show a profit in green.

Initial Bet: You BACK the horse with €10 at odds of 2.0.
   If the horse wins, your profit is €10 * (2.0 - 1) = +€10.
   If the horse loses, your loss is -€10.
Odds Movement: The odds on the horse shorten (decrease) to 1.8. This is a favourable move if you have backed it.
The "Green Up" Bet: You now place a LAY bet at the lower odds of 1.8 to lock in your profit. To calculate the lay stake needed for an equal profit across both outcomes, you use the formula:
   (Back Price * Back Stake) / Current Lay Price
   Lay Stake = (2.0 * €10) / 1.8 = €20 / 1.8 = €11.11 (approximately)
   So, you LAY the horse for €11.11 at odds of 1.8.
Calculating the Guaranteed Profit: Now let's see the result whatever happens:
   If the horse WINS:
     You win €10 from your back bet.
     You lose the liability on your lay bet: €11.11 * (1.8 - 1) = €11.11 * 0.8 = €8.89 (liability).
     Net Profit: +€10 - €8.89 = +€1.11
   If the horse LOSES:
     You lose €10 from your back bet stake.
     You win the stake from your lay bet: +€11.11.
     Net Profit: -€10 + €11.11 = +€1.11

As you can see from the calculation, by backing at 2.0 and laying at 1.8 with correctly calculated stakes, you have guaranteed yourself a profit of €1.11 (before commission) whether the horse wins or loses. Your example perfectly illustrates the core principle of "greening up" on a single selection by taking advantage of favourable odds movement.

The reason you might see traders like Peter making multiple trades before greening up is that they are often applying this principle (or variations of it) to multiple horses in the same race, or executing several trades on the same horse as odds fluctuate. The final "green up" action they take then balances the net profit/loss from all those trades across the entire field, ensuring an equal outcome regardless of which horse wins the race.

[purso]

Thank you that makes perfect sense and I appreciate you being so generous with the explanation.

In summary is the following assumption correct?

In short if I have carried out 1 entry and exit successfully I do not need to green up.

When I become more advanced and carry out multiple trades then the green up feature is a handy button.

[Dallas]

Thank you that makes perfect sense and I appreciate you being so generous with the explanation.

In summary is the following assumption correct?

In short if I have carried out 1 entry and exit successfully I do not need to green up.

When I become more advanced and carry out multiple trades then the green up feature is a handy button.

If you don't green up you will only make a profit if the selection/runner you backed and layed goes on to win
As stated above greening means to spread out the profit (or loss) you have equally across all selections, whether thats from one back and lay bet on one selection of several back and lay bets on multiple selections

These posts might also help

This one regards some terminology
viewtopic.php?t=11408

and this one for examples of its use in practical terms (highlighted best in the two images of the one-click screen)
viewtopic.php?t=11572

[jamesedwards]

You want to be making as many +ev (positive expected value) trades as possible and limiting the number of -ev trades to a minimum.

Assuming that greening up trades are likely to be -ev, you're probably better off keeping greening trades to a minimum. Therefore you might want to close the original trade using slightly different stake in order to create a green result across the card without having to green-all afterwards, so creating less overall trades.

eg; backing £10 @ 2.02 then laying £10 @ 1.98 would require a further green-all command in order to green up across all runners after a successful trade.
But if you back £10 @ 2.02 then lay £10.20 @ 1.98, this creates a +£0.20 green result across all selections without needing to green all afterwards.

[Tuco]

You want to be making as many +ev (positive expected value) trades as possible and limiting the number of -ev trades to a minimum.

Assuming that greening up trades are likely to be -ev, you're probably better off keeping greening trades to a minimum. Therefore you might want to close the original trade using slightly different stake in order to create a green result across the card without having to green-all afterwards, so creating less overall trades.

eg; backing £10 @ 2.02 then laying £10 @ 1.98 would require a further green-all command in order to green up across all runners after a successful trade.
But if you back £10 @ 2.02 then lay £10.20 @ 1.98, this creates a +£0.20 green result across all selections without needing to green all afterwards.

...which is one of my very reasonings for submitting this BA improvement suggestion:

viewtopic.php?p=376042#p376042

"green-as-you-go"

[purso]

The penny has dropped with that thank you! I realised I was having a blond moment but it makes sense now thank you!!

[Tuco]

...it is best to dye your hair a darker colour as you will find blond moments rather expensive in this game.

[jamesedwards]

The penny has dropped with that thank you! I realised I was having a blond moment but it makes sense now thank you!!

A more advanced penny-drop is when you realise greening for greening's sake is -EV, and in the long run you're better off just sticking to your +EV trades rather than obsessing with greening every position. It can take a good while, and a big bank, to embrace this.

[purso]

Will bear that in mind as i get past the beginner stage, thank you!

[ForFolksSake]

You want to be making as many +ev (positive expected value) trades as possible and limiting the number of -ev trades to a minimum.

Assuming that greening up trades are likely to be -ev, you're probably better off keeping greening trades to a minimum. Therefore you might want to close the original trade using slightly different stake in order to create a green result across the card without having to green-all afterwards, so creating less overall trades.

eg; backing £10 @ 2.02 then laying £10 @ 1.98 would require a further green-all command in order to green up across all runners after a successful trade.
But if you back £10 @ 2.02 then lay £10.20 @ 1.98, this creates a +£0.20 green result across all selections without needing to green all afterwards.

So what 'Betfair' odds are used to 'plot' a P/V chart e.g

[jamesedwards]

You want to be making as many +ev (positive expected value) trades as possible and limiting the number of -ev trades to a minimum.

Assuming that greening up trades are likely to be -ev, you're probably better off keeping greening trades to a minimum. Therefore you might want to close the original trade using slightly different stake in order to create a green result across the card without having to green-all afterwards, so creating less overall trades.

eg; backing £10 @ 2.02 then laying £10 @ 1.98 would require a further green-all command in order to green up across all runners after a successful trade.
But if you back £10 @ 2.02 then lay £10.20 @ 1.98, this creates a +£0.20 green result across all selections without needing to green all afterwards.

So what 'Betfair' odds are used to 'plot' a P/V chart e.g

Actual trades, presumably?