Negative Betfair account

[Emtaxx]

Hi all.

Bit of a concern here. Why has my account gone into a negative amount!?

[Emtaxx]

Thanks for holding, this is due to a charge for over 5000 failed transactions ( usually via API) in 1 hour, details can be found below

7. Transaction Charges
7.1 This section only applies to the Betfair Exchange.
7.2 In addition to any commission payments, Betfair customers will be charged a transaction fee if they process a large number of transactions on the main Betting Exchange or on Exchange Games.
This charge is designed to limit inefficient transactional behaviour, particularly at peak times.
7.3 A ‘transaction’ shall include all bets placed and all failed transactions. Transaction Charges only apply to customers recording more than 5000 transactions an hour.
7.4 For the purpose of calculating Transaction Charges, an “hour” means a continuous period of 60 minutes based on the standard 24-hour clock system. Each new ‘hour’ will start at on the hour (e.g. 10:00:00) and finish at 59 minutes and 59 seconds past that hour (e.g.10.59:59).
What is placed bet?
Any bet that is matched, unmatched, cancelled or lapsed.
What is a failed transaction?
An action that leads to an API error, resulting in a failed bet placement, failed cancellation or other failed transaction. Full descriptions of each failed transaction type can be found in the link below:
https://betfair-developer-docs.atlassia ... tErrorCode
At the end of every day, we add up all the transactions you have recorded. If this number is in excess of 5000 in any hour of the day then (based on the 24-hour clock system) then we will multiply the exceeded amount by 0.2p.:
We will offset any transaction fee against the following amount:
(Commission Generated = (Commission Paid + Implied Commission) ÷ 2
where
Implied Commission = market losses x 3%
Any remaining amount will be charged to your account on a daily basis. Should your (commission) exceed this amount, you will not be charged a transaction fee. Accounts that relate to one person, entity, API subscription or a Master account (Trading version only) with related Sub accounts are treated as one customer for the purposes of transaction charging. Note transaction charges will not generate Betfair points or be offset against any Expert Fees.
Example::
You are a Betfair Exchange user who pays commission generated of £2.10 throughout a given day.
However, between the hours of 14:00:00 and 14:59:59 you placed 4800 bets and recorded 3400 failed transactions, between the hours of 15:00:00 and 15:59:59 you placed 2250 bets and recorded 4200 failed transactions, but in other hours you recorded less than 5000 transactions. Your base transaction charge is (4800+3400-5000) X £0.002 + (2250+4200-5000) X £0.002 = £9.30.
Therefore you will be billed an additional £9.30-£2.10 = £7.20 on the following day.


Yikes!.

How do I stop this from happening again

[jamesedwards]

There is a stored value condition called "the betfair transactions this hour" which you can use to prevent trades from triggering when you reach a certain number.

How many transactions per hour were you doing? You might need to investigate ways of reducing the number of transactions.

The cost of transactions is netted off against commission so if you are generating enough commission they don't necessarily end up costing you anything.

[ShaunWhite]

As per James, but if £7.20 took the account into the red then the failed transactions are probably insufficient funds.

[Emtaxx]

I'm not too sure tbh. Its a collection of matched, unmatched, cancelled or lapsed.

So I'm going to have to find a way around this so it doesn't happen again

I'll look into the SV that you mentioned. TBH I imiagine I'm not the first person who has walked into this.

Do you have a similar code written up to protect you james?

I imagine there probably one on the forum mind you.

[jamesedwards]

As per James, but if £7.20 took the account into the red then the failed transactions are probably insufficient funds.

That confused me as well, until I realised the £7.20 was just the Betfair example from their Ts & Cs.

[sionascaig]

I seem to remember something about transactions less than BF min bet count double - was a while ago though and maybe no longer applies...

[jamesedwards]

I'm not too sure tbh. Its a collection of matched, unmatched, cancelled or lapsed.

So I'm going to have to find a way around this so it doesn't happen again

I'll look into the SV that you mentioned. TBH I imiagine I'm not the first person who has walked into this.

Do you have a similar code written up to protect you james?

I imagine there probably one on the forum mind you.

Not an issue for me because I don't do enough transactions to ever risk qualifying, and then it wouldn't matter because I create enough generated commission to cover it.

It's simple to add it as a condition to your rule line/s that triggers a trade.

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[Emtaxx]

As always I really appriciate the help.

Also this is not an example. This is the charge from the support team.

I was also charged double, which I'm chasing why. But will only be an email reply.

Just don't want this to happen again. I've got something I feel could be really cool. But may come at a cost. Will need to tailor it so I dont go into the damages of over betting... Just need to figure out a way, where I dont miss the oppotunities etc.

N.B. with this happened. is there anything else I should be aware of that can damage your bank

[ShaunWhite]

You'd usually trial something in PM to gauge how many it's going to do. But with commission covering the fee and only 0.2p per transaction it's not insurmountable.

"N.B. with this happened. is there anything else I should be aware of that can damage your bank"
Nothing that isn't in the Ts&Cs like voids or withdrawals on antipost markets.

[ShaunWhite]

I seem to remember something about transactions less than BF min bet count double - was a while ago though and maybe no longer applies...

That's not a Betfair thing, BA swerves the min bet check by submitting a bigger bet and then modifies it downwards. Twice the transactions, twice the time to place. I guess the trn count James mentioned includes those.

[jamesedwards]

You'd usually trial something in PM to gauge how many it's going to do. But with commission covering the fee and only 0.2p per transaction it's not insurmountable.

"N.B. with this happened. is there anything else I should be aware of that can damage your bank"
Nothing that isn't in the Ts&Cs like voids or withdrawals on antipost markets.

Also beware Australian markets. They have significantly higher commission, and NSW horse races specifically carry a turnover charge which can be very expensive depending how you trade.

[Emtaxx]

Hopefully that counter also includes the TOTAL transactions.

I’ll add it in tomorrow and see how we go. Or modify the bot somewhat however I’d be giving away edge then… im only running 10ps for now but seems promising. Not making enough to offset the commission just yet tho.

[jamesedwards]

I seem to remember something about transactions less than BF min bet count double - was a while ago though and maybe no longer applies...

I don't think this is an issue any more.

[Emtaxx]

Im going to sit down tomorrow and manually calc out worst case scenarios don’t trade the last 30 % of the races so will see how it calcs out at. I can’t remeber but have a feeling I also was on the place markets too ..