Instead of just striking and doing nothing, maybe everyone should trade on betdaq for the day. If betfair suddenly see a surge in activity and volume over at betdaq (they'll be watching I'm sure) then they'll have more food for thought than if people do nothing.
Make it a betdaq monday
Instead of just striking tommorrow.....
Tune! 
Just to add to the musical theme, hopefully Betdaq will soon be singing this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkOmcIl79s
Jeff
Just to add to the musical theme, hopefully Betdaq will soon be singing this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkOmcIl79s
Jeff
I honestly dont think Betfair would care...
They seem to have steadily become more and more anti-trader over the past months and as I imagine most of their revenue comes from punters I dont think it will make any difference to Betfair if a handful of traders decide to take a day off.
Besides I dont think any of the really succesful traders will take a day off in protest. If I was one of them and earning around a £1,000 a day on average I think I would trade rather than sulk.
As for Betdaq would they really want all the traders coming over to them? They dont seem to be taking the oppurtunity to attract the disgruntled masses from Betfair. There must be a reason why Betfair dont seem to want the really high earning traders on board so I'd imagine Betdaq wouldnt really want them either.
They seem to have steadily become more and more anti-trader over the past months and as I imagine most of their revenue comes from punters I dont think it will make any difference to Betfair if a handful of traders decide to take a day off.
Besides I dont think any of the really succesful traders will take a day off in protest. If I was one of them and earning around a £1,000 a day on average I think I would trade rather than sulk.
As for Betdaq would they really want all the traders coming over to them? They dont seem to be taking the oppurtunity to attract the disgruntled masses from Betfair. There must be a reason why Betfair dont seem to want the really high earning traders on board so I'd imagine Betdaq wouldnt really want them either.
RafterP -
I agree. When I asked Betfair how the strike would impact on users, this is what they told me:
'I have heard that some affected by this new charge have threatened to walk away from the site which is understandable to a degree. This has been threatened previously but nothing has come of it. Should they actually carry out this threat, previous instances when big players have walked away has had very little effect on markets. It is usually the case that a slightly smaller trader will fill the gap left and our Pricing Team are confident that this change should have very little effect on 'ordinary users'.
Jeff
I agree. When I asked Betfair how the strike would impact on users, this is what they told me:
'I have heard that some affected by this new charge have threatened to walk away from the site which is understandable to a degree. This has been threatened previously but nothing has come of it. Should they actually carry out this threat, previous instances when big players have walked away has had very little effect on markets. It is usually the case that a slightly smaller trader will fill the gap left and our Pricing Team are confident that this change should have very little effect on 'ordinary users'.
Jeff
RafterP wrote:I honestly dont think Betfair would care...
They seem to have steadily become more and more anti-trader over the past months and as I imagine most of their revenue comes from punters I dont think it will make any difference to Betfair if a handful of traders decide to take a day off.
I'm talking about actually doing something to build betdaq up here. Loads of people will not be on betfair for whatever reason tommorrow so they may as well do something useful with their time.
I traded on betdaq when betfair was down yesterday and made some money, first time I'd ever touched the site. There is certainly money to be made there.
The more people put into betdaq the more they will grow. Punters will go where there is liquidity. There is absolutely nothing to stop them moving to another exchange if they so choose, in this day and age people are changing their providers of many services and shopping around more than ever. 10 years ago everyone used boomakers and betfair barely existed. People's behaviour does change.
There is no reason why betdaq wouldnt want traders to provide liquidity to their markets, quite the opposite. As long as traders aren't hammering their systems there should be no problem. The more trader money that is available on the site the more punters will be attracted. Betdaq would love to earn the kind of profits betfair have.
Apathy and cynisism is just what betfair want and do nothing to get yourself on a life raft when the ship is sinking
I traded on betdaq when betfair was down yesterday and made some money, first time I'd ever touched the site. There is certainly money to be made there.
The more people put into betdaq the more they will grow. Punters will go where there is liquidity. There is absolutely nothing to stop them moving to another exchange if they so choose, in this day and age people are changing their providers of many services and shopping around more than ever. 10 years ago everyone used boomakers and betfair barely existed. People's behaviour does change.
There is no reason why betdaq wouldnt want traders to provide liquidity to their markets, quite the opposite. As long as traders aren't hammering their systems there should be no problem. The more trader money that is available on the site the more punters will be attracted. Betdaq would love to earn the kind of profits betfair have.
Apathy and cynisism is just what betfair want and do nothing to get yourself on a life raft when the ship is sinking
Well when you manage to get to making £1000 a day you can then make that call.RafterP wrote:Besides I dont think any of the really succesful traders will take a day off in protest. If I was one of them and earning around a £1,000 a day on average I think I would trade rather than sulk.
Where has this £1000 a day come from?
It isn't about sulking, it is about having the piss taken out of you. Like I have said before. Don't assume that all the 500 have no means to make money in other ways. Also do not assume that the 500 all make £1000's a day, they don't. Another point to note is how much is enough? If you can take £1000 (your figure) a day you would. But who really needs £1000 a day? This is Betfairs propaganda that some of you have bought into, The 500 are greedy sulkers, we don't need them blah blah blah.
Everyone of the 500 have their own agenda. Some will stay, some will go, but the exchange dynamics will change make no mistake.
Anyway, there is no strike. Betfair will not change their position. It's a case of stay (like PW says, there are plenty of opportunities to make money before you reach the threshold) or leave. Some will leave because they will not be able to make it pay. Some will leave because of principle. You guys will shape Betfairs future, it's up to you how you want Betfair to be........
The problem with Betdaq is that they seem unwilling to help themselves. And when someone is unwilling to help themselves, I'm normally reluctant to help them, as it merely perpetuates the status quo, and does them no favours long-term.hgodden wrote:I'm talking about actually doing something to build betdaq up here.
The only way Betdaq are going to get where they want to be (and where we want them to be) is if they adopt a far more dynamic approach. As a motivational guru once pointed out, if you walk around aimlessly, you're unlikely to find yourself at the summit of Everest anytime soon...
Jeff
I agree that the more people who go to Betadaq the more liquidity there will be over time but in the long run Betdaq could do the same as Betfair.hgodden wrote:The more people put into betdaq the more they will grow. Punters will go where there is liquidity.
There is no reason why betdaq wouldnt want traders to provide liquidity to their markets, quite the opposite. As long as traders aren't hammering their systems there should be no problem. The more trader money that is available on the site the more punters will be attracted.
Betdaq would love to earn the kind of profits betfair have.
If everyone jumped ship tomorrow from Betfair to Betdaq I dont think Betdaq would be as happy as you make out. Yes they would make more profit but if it was such a cashcow then why would Betfair try to drive away their higest earning customers in the first place?
The reality is that the new 60% charge only affects a very small number of people and Betfair know that even if these whale's defected tomorrow and never came back then it wouldnt make much difference to Betfairs profit margin if any.
If Betdaq was as viable an alternative as it could be then I would trade there tomorrow to avoid paying the 20% PC but its not and probably never will be and as the vast majority of people will never make enough money to pay the 60%PC I dont think anything will change in the foreseeable future.
That figure is the minimum that some of the highest earning traders make a day. And its not Betfair propoganda.mugsgame wrote:
Well when you manage to get to making £1000 a day you can then make that call.
Where has this £1000 a day come from?
And my point was if I was one of those making that much money I would rather trade than do nothing.
RafterP
Some people may accuse you of being negative, but I think that, to make the best possible decisions, you need look at things from every angle.
And you also need to consider the worst case scenario. For example, Betdaq may think "Maybe Betfair are onto something with their approach of being a bookmaker and a broker", and introduce their own PC.
There's no point in wasting time worrying about such eventualities, but it might be worth making preparations in case they do come to pass...
Jeff
Some people may accuse you of being negative, but I think that, to make the best possible decisions, you need look at things from every angle.
And you also need to consider the worst case scenario. For example, Betdaq may think "Maybe Betfair are onto something with their approach of being a bookmaker and a broker", and introduce their own PC.
There's no point in wasting time worrying about such eventualities, but it might be worth making preparations in case they do come to pass...
Jeff
You're assuming they will act in their own self-interest, rather than give away their money, which is a reasonable assumption, I'd say...
Jeff
Jeff
RafterP wrote: And my point was if I was one of those making that much money I would rather trade than do nothing.
More Betfair propagandaRafterP wrote:The reality is that the new 60% charge only affects a very small number of people and Betfair know that even if these whale's defected tomorrow and never came back then it wouldnt make much difference to Betfairs profit margin if any.
To make big money in general you have to invest big money. You ain't gonna win "£1000" a day betting with £50 stakes.
So the old pareto (80/20 rule) comes into play. 20% create 80% of the liquidity. They claim to replace the lost liquidity with their "Sportsbook". But taking a position and seeding a market is not like trading it in real time. The way the market ebbs and flows is important to many traders understanding and strategy. many of you complain about large amounts appearing and disappearing, "manipulating" the market. My money is this is Betfair, and will get worse. When the dynamics of the exchange changes, unless you can quickly adapt to it you will lose. To Betfair. So all this "It won't effect me" BS will be fun to watch.
