No money to match my orders

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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JollyGreen
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am

I am finding this quite hilarious at times, there just seems to be no money in the market. It's that or it's false money and/or Betfair playing silly buggers!

I was greening up a small amount; I have a friend with me who wants to trade so we were giving it a go. I had £10 to green up on the 2nd favourite with about 1 minute to the off. The order sat there for most of that minute and then I could not believe my eyes as I watched it trade out. I was so :shock: I grabbed a screenshot of amounts. Bear in mind this was at a point in the market where the money was supposedly flowing well!!

JG
miniscule amounts.jpg
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Boing
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:06 pm

I thought my 7p got matched fairly quickly. :lol:
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mugsgame
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:41 pm

see...........the XM bot really works
andyfuller
Posts: 4619
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm

JG - I posted this yesterday:
andyfuller wrote:Just sat and watched an order of mine that was sat in the market on the 4th fav at odds of 6.4. Only got part filled over a 2 minute period despite being right at the front of the queue and the market being at 6.2/6.4.

Here is the filling of the order:

6.4 £16.32 £88.13
6.4 £4.70 £25.38
6.4 £1.67 £9.02
6.4 £0.28 £1.51
6.4 £6.25 £33.75
6.4 £0.53 £2.86
6.4 £0.01 £0.05
6.4 £20.00 £108.00
6.4 £3.01 £16.25
6.4 £11.05 £59.67
6.4 £0.07 £0.38
6.4 £0.14 £0.76
6.4 £23.05 £124.47
6.4 £2.00 £10.80
6.4 £1.17 £6.32
6.4 £0.82 £4.43
6.4 £0.60 £3.24
6.4 £1.86 £10.04

Such poxy stakes and why so many sub £2 bets???
If the small amounts is XM from money on other runners it just shows how little is actually being bet on Betfair.
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JollyGreen
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am

Hi Andy

I saw your post yesterday and thought I would also mention it today. What amazes me is it was just £10 but it took all those orders over 1 minute for them to be matched despite the price holding for me!!

There seems to be very little being matched.

JG
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Does anyone know how the current average volume matched per race compares with this time last year?

Jeff
JollyGreen wrote: There seems to be very little being matched.
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mugsgame
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:41 pm

Jeff
Volume is inconsequential. It has nothing to do with fill rates.
If you have an odds on fav there can be huge volume traded back and forth. If the same race last year had a fav @6 there would be nowhere near as much money traded.

Noticing large amounts sitting on one side of the book, but intermittent. Let me explain:
£4534 - £234
£4432 - £230
etc
Appearing then disappearing. At first I thought it was a API glitch, but now I think it's the XM money. I have already formed a strategy to take advantage of it. I'm sure the sharper of you who have watched this are already using it too.
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

mugsgame wrote:Jeff
Volume is inconsequential. It has nothing to do with fill rates.
If you have an odds on fav there can be huge volume traded back and forth. If the same race last year had a fav @6 there would be nowhere near as much money traded.
True, but if you look at two large sample of races from the same time of year, would you not expect to find roughly the same proportion of favs at 6?
mugsgame wrote:Noticing large amounts sitting on one side of the book, but intermittent. Let me explain:
£4534 - £234
£4432 - £230
etc
Appearing then disappearing. At first I thought it was a API glitch, but now I think it's the XM money.
How would that affect fill rate though? Do you think that the large amounts may be putting people off taking some of the money waiting in the queue?

Jeff
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mugsgame
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:41 pm

It doesn't affect the fill rate, as the money isn't there Jeff, the true money is the smaller amount behind it.

Watch this video and it explains what is happening better than I could,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZR64EF3 ... ure=fvwrel
Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

mugsgame wrote:It doesn't affect the fill rate, as the money isn't there Jeff, the true money is the smaller amount behind it.
To clarify, are you saying that the money in the queue is phantom money, ie an illusion created by Betfair?
mugsgame wrote:Watch this video and it explains what is happening better than I could,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZR64EF3 ... ure=fvwrel
Very funny! :) As an aside, I see that scene differently now than I did when I was as a kid. Back then, I didn't realise that there are lots of real-life Wizards of Ozes...

Jeff
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mugsgame
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:41 pm

I don't know Jeff. I know alot of us watch the markets day after day. Sometimes you know something has changed or just doesn't feel right.
This is the feeling I am getting now.

Over the years this has happened loads of times. When they turned on the XM bot on Football I knew within minutes something had changed. I just didn't know what.

Watch and see what I mean.
convoysur-2
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:00 am

ive noticed this as well ,ive mentioned on one or 2 trends on here,i trade mainly football.slow and boring so i see all that happens in the market,
i put my money in the que ,i write down the number of money traded ,what the amount is in front of me .and for the last week im going crazy ,thousands are being taken in front of me, quite often this is happening,ive been going up the walls thinking my liability on betfair is set wrong .etc, ive called them up and made them go into my account and watch as money is taken before my place in the que,they denay it of course,there is a big change,like on there special offers ,--example--if madrid is the only one to let u down we will refund your bet up to 100 pounds,
but come on ,we know they are creaming of this just by puting the bets in on the lay side ,rather than the back price that is on offer,im sure they are jumping the que,or else some very smart traders know how to get the money to the front ,??your thoughts are appriaciated,
Regards
Marc
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

I think these days most money is being matched by x-matching at source that so little money actually crosses the spread meaning fill rates are slow at certain prices.

I have quite a bit of automated stuff and sometimes will leapfrog best price to get matched, can't be certain but plenty of times it appears I get matched at the price I requested rather than best execution price. For example best price is 5.6 I see my bot place a bet at 5.5 and get instantly get matched at 5.5 despite plenty being available at 5.6 or even 5.7. Hard to prove x matching is picking off prices at source and avoiding best execution but happening far too often for me to write off as my own paranoia.
convoysur-2
Posts: 1110
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:00 am

Here we go again to day.
man city i entered the que to lay at 1.25 .there was 435,100 traded
57,293 in front of me,
my money should have been taken at 492,393,
now theres 502.900 traded and im still sitting here like a tube waiting,
it used to be sometimes ,now its every day.
im really pissed off.
Marc
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LeTiss
Posts: 5483
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:04 pm

No, that's wrong Marc

BF count each £1 matched as £2 traded on the total figure, due to £1 being matched on both sides of the book. There would need to be £114k added to the volume figure before yours started to be taken
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