http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20025626
Italy scientists guilty of manslaughter
ridiculous - stupid. before they put scientists on trial for not being able to predict earthquakes, they should put politicians on trial for all the the things they have predicated and promised, which nearly always end in failure, and quite often death and misery.
madness -burn the witch
madness -burn the witch
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giulio2010
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:11 am
Italy is situated in a high-risk earthquake zone .. The government should ensure the tightness of the houses in all the red areas .. L'Aquila is one of these red areas. Politicians should have been convicted NO the scientists. Berlusconi and his friends made billions to rebuild the area after the earthquake ... It 's one of politicians FAT BIGS biggest business.
But it must be said that even if science does not recognize earthquake predictions there is one italian scintist named Giampaolo Giuliani which has made some research, studying radon as seismic precursor and that in the days before the tragedy had raised the alarm. This gentleman already had some interesting results in the past, but the obtuse scintific community did not want to face the possibility of his methods and predictions. Mr. Giuliani was taking to court for having unnecessarily alarmed the people of Aquila with a megaphone throw the city of Aquila just days before the earthquake. Unfortunaly, as you all know, the earthquake striked for real and the catostrofe took place. Mr. Giuliani Gimpaolo after some studies also predicted the earthquake in northern Italy, which has always been considered by the convicted scintists as a LOW risk area and once again Mr Giuliani was being sued for unnecessarily alarming the people of emilia romagna, but once again earthquake striked and scintestis realized that part of italy was also a RED ZONE . All this, however, does not justify the fact that some scientists have been wrongly convicted and there is no investigation into who built inadequately to a seismic zone and this is the real scandal about this story..
But it must be said that even if science does not recognize earthquake predictions there is one italian scintist named Giampaolo Giuliani which has made some research, studying radon as seismic precursor and that in the days before the tragedy had raised the alarm. This gentleman already had some interesting results in the past, but the obtuse scintific community did not want to face the possibility of his methods and predictions. Mr. Giuliani was taking to court for having unnecessarily alarmed the people of Aquila with a megaphone throw the city of Aquila just days before the earthquake. Unfortunaly, as you all know, the earthquake striked for real and the catostrofe took place. Mr. Giuliani Gimpaolo after some studies also predicted the earthquake in northern Italy, which has always been considered by the convicted scintists as a LOW risk area and once again Mr Giuliani was being sued for unnecessarily alarming the people of emilia romagna, but once again earthquake striked and scintestis realized that part of italy was also a RED ZONE . All this, however, does not justify the fact that some scientists have been wrongly convicted and there is no investigation into who built inadequately to a seismic zone and this is the real scandal about this story..
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
I know I'm going to be a bit controversial here, but as a person with formation on this area, I have a different view.
Scientist weren't convicted for not predicting an earthquake, they were convicted because they declared an area as being safe and it wasn't...
I know it's unfair that scientists and not politicians go to the jail, that's something where the law is really flawed.
That said, I think everyone should be bond to their declarations. In this particular case, engineering is made based on the fact that an area is or isn't seismic sensible. This kind of scientific study is paied their weight in gold. People must be responsible for their reports and I've seen personally studies like this being manipulated so that this and that and in the end it's all a big big lie.
With knowledge comes responsability...
I'd ask who paied those scientists to write what they wrote?
Scientist weren't convicted for not predicting an earthquake, they were convicted because they declared an area as being safe and it wasn't...
I know it's unfair that scientists and not politicians go to the jail, that's something where the law is really flawed.
That said, I think everyone should be bond to their declarations. In this particular case, engineering is made based on the fact that an area is or isn't seismic sensible. This kind of scientific study is paied their weight in gold. People must be responsible for their reports and I've seen personally studies like this being manipulated so that this and that and in the end it's all a big big lie.
With knowledge comes responsability...
I'd ask who paied those scientists to write what they wrote?
It's the same thing as if an engineer had designed a bridge or something and then it collapsed.
or if a mechanic forget to connect the brakes after a service.
if you sign something off as being safe then it's on you head.
has to be like that really imo.
or if a mechanic forget to connect the brakes after a service.
if you sign something off as being safe then it's on you head.
has to be like that really imo.
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giulio2010
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:11 am
If there was some1 to make those scintists to write the report and not just Aquila but also for Emilia Romagna could only be the Berlusconi gang...
There is a recorded phone call between 2 business man ( connected to Berlusconi) who were laughing about how much money they were making tx to the earthquake...
My mentor told me that Berlusconi daughter made millions after the earthquake..She has managed to gain a license for slot machine in order to provide funds for the people of Aquila but only a 3rd of it went to Abruzzo..They made 1.8 billion euros..600M to berlusconi, 600 for taxes and 600 for the people of Aquila in 3 years..
There are warnings about a possible landslide in the tirreno sea ( Marsili Vulcano) and a major earthquake in the south of Italy above 7.2 of the richter scale but again people are not informed about the risks and houses are not secured for this kind of events..
There is a recorded phone call between 2 business man ( connected to Berlusconi) who were laughing about how much money they were making tx to the earthquake...
My mentor told me that Berlusconi daughter made millions after the earthquake..She has managed to gain a license for slot machine in order to provide funds for the people of Aquila but only a 3rd of it went to Abruzzo..They made 1.8 billion euros..600M to berlusconi, 600 for taxes and 600 for the people of Aquila in 3 years..
There are warnings about a possible landslide in the tirreno sea ( Marsili Vulcano) and a major earthquake in the south of Italy above 7.2 of the richter scale but again people are not informed about the risks and houses are not secured for this kind of events..
CaerMyrddin wrote:I know I'm going to be a bit controversial here, but as a person with formation on this area, I have a different view.
Scientist weren't convicted for not predicting an earthquake, they were convicted because they declared an area as being safe and it wasn't...
I know it's unfair that scientists and not politicians go to the jail, that's something where the law is really flawed.
That said, I think everyone should be bond to their declarations. In this particular case, engineering is made based on the fact that an area is or isn't seismic sensible. This kind of scientific study is paied their weight in gold. People must be responsible for their reports and I've seen personally studies like this being manipulated so that this and that and in the end it's all a big big lie.
With knowledge comes responsability...
I'd ask who paied those scientists to write what they wrote?
But you're assuming that these scientists messed up. Isn't it possible that they looked at the data rigorously and expressed their honest professional opinions about what it said?freddy wrote:It's the same thing as if an engineer had designed a bridge or something and then it collapsed.
Humans crave certainty. We don't like to believe that sometimes terrible events are unpredictable and unpreventable. So when something terrible happens, it's tempting to look for someone to blame.
Apart from the fact that some scientists may be jailed unfairly, the risk is that, in future, scientists will be over-cautious, causing panic completely unnecessarily.
Jeff
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pdupre1961
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:01 pm
Ferru123 wrote:But you're assuming that these scientists messed up. Isn't it possible that they looked at the data rigorously and expressed their honest professional opinions about what it said?freddy wrote:It's the same thing as if an engineer had designed a bridge or something and then it collapsed.
Humans crave certainty. We don't like to believe that sometimes terrible events are unpredictable and unpreventable. So when something terrible happens, it's tempting to look for someone to blame.
Apart from the fact that some scientists may be jailed unfairly, the risk is that, in future, scientists will be over-cautious, causing panic completely unnecessarily.
Jeff
That's just how the world works nowadays Jeff,
whether it be architects / engineers / doctors scientists you name it.
someone has to sign off on things and say that they will be ok, otherwise nothing would ever get done or get insured / mortgaged etc.
The scientists professional opinion was wrong in this case and they have had to pay for it just as this builder has.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-nort ... s-19841005
No jail (unless you are also going to jail every other meterologist in the country who failed to predict the storm). What was he supposed to do? Say 'A woman has rung into the BBC to report rumours of a hurricane, so you should head for shelter immediately'? 
Experts don't always have God-like powers of prediction. This isn't analogous to an air traffic controller taking a nap during his shift and hoping for the best...
Jeff
Experts don't always have God-like powers of prediction. This isn't analogous to an air traffic controller taking a nap during his shift and hoping for the best...
Jeff
Surely the question isn't whether it is the way the world works - it's whether it should be the way the world works.freddy wrote: That's just how the world works nowadays Jeff,
whether it be architects / engineers / doctors scientists you name it.
What we are talking about here is punishing someone for not having the gift of second sight.
The builder was negligent. Is it not possible that the seismologists simply interpreted the evidence diligently, and reported honestly what they told them? And if so, should they be punished for it? Is it a crime for someone to give their honest expert opinion?freddy wrote:The scientists professional opinion was wrong in this case and they have had to pay for it just as this builder has.
Jeff
PS In my view prison should be a place where you send people like these guys - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20025138 - or Jimmy Savile, not professionals who might have made an honest error of judgement...
Out of interest, would the people in favor of jailing the seismologists also be in favour of jailing Gordon Brown, Mervyn King and Ben Bernanke for not predicting the Lehmann Bros collapse and doing everything within their power to prevent it?
Jeff
Out of interest, would the people in favor of jailing the seismologists also be in favour of jailing Gordon Brown, Mervyn King and Ben Bernanke for not predicting the Lehmann Bros collapse and doing everything within their power to prevent it?
Jeff
Jeff i come from an engineering background and when i was a college my lecturer always used to say to us that if you make a small mistake as a doctor you can easily kill a person, but if you make a mistake as an engineer you can easily kill thousands of people.
At the end of the day if your a professional and in a position of power and you sign a document to say that something is safe and it turns out it isn’t, then your going to get in trouble, whether it be a fine or something more severe as in this case.
To me the builder I mentioned is no different to the scientist in this story.
I doubt either of them thought or wanted anything bad to happen. But they took risks based on their professional judgement and paid the price.
At the end of the day if your a professional and in a position of power and you sign a document to say that something is safe and it turns out it isn’t, then your going to get in trouble, whether it be a fine or something more severe as in this case.
To me the builder I mentioned is no different to the scientist in this story.
I doubt either of them thought or wanted anything bad to happen. But they took risks based on their professional judgement and paid the price.
Im not an seismologist obviously 
but it's true what people are saying that there is no way to predict an earthquake’s accurately,
but for someone to give guarantees there would not be earthquake in a earthquake zone
,
well that seems quite a risk to me,
They didn’t have to take on that risk and they could have walked away, but they didn’t.
If an structural engineer visited a school and said the roof was safe and then it collapsed next day killing children then he would suffer a similar fait.
If people are paid to give guarantee's then surely they have to be held accountable for them.
but it's true what people are saying that there is no way to predict an earthquake’s accurately,but for someone to give guarantees there would not be earthquake in a earthquake zone
, well that seems quite a risk to me,
They didn’t have to take on that risk and they could have walked away, but they didn’t.
If an structural engineer visited a school and said the roof was safe and then it collapsed next day killing children then he would suffer a similar fait.
If people are paid to give guarantee's then surely they have to be held accountable for them.