Hi
I just wanted to let people know what Im doing and how Im doing and also to compare to other peoples first few days / weeks using the software.
I have been reading about exchange trading for the last week or two Friday night I purchased the Bet Angel trial and had a look into it over the weekend.
In 90% of trades to minimise risk Ive been backing and then laying immediately after for a minimal profit. Ive been able to repeat this a couple of times per races, on 2-3 different horses in the race.
Ive started with £2 stakes and in around 15 races I traded in I made a profit in all but 2. Of the losing trades I made a small loss after losing concentration when my 2 year old boy came in and started climbing all over me and trying press buttons. (not what you want when a wrong click can cost you money.)
The second mistake I made was by looking at the market before bed the night before. I though the horse sounded decent, the sporting life had its forecast odds at 9-2 and I was able to get around 9-1 the night before on betfair. I therefore made several back trades expecting to lay it in the morning. However when the odds came out with the mainsteanm bookmakers it started at around 9-1 and steadily drifted all morning leading me to chase my losses and wiping out almost all the profit made to date. I think it reached 18-1 at one point which for some of you Im sure it would have been great!
Ignoring these 2 problems every market Ive sat and concentrated on within half hour of the races off has made a profit.
Would you say this is an average achievement, have all newbies managed to come straight in and make modest profits from the off? Ive been using betfair for years for backing and the odds lay but not trading.
Does it get harder when you start increasing stakes due to not being able to match the higher stakes?
Ive only been trading a few days so obviously I still have a lot of leaning to do and the market move far too quick for me in the last 60 seconds but wanted to know how other new starters coped for the first few days/weeks to compare progress?
Thanks!
Newbie first days
The most difficult thing I find when I increase stakes is dealing with the increased size of losses. Using minimum stakes you can look at a 20p loss and feel ok about it, using £100 stakes that loss will be £10 and its all about how u can deal with this, especially if you get a few losses in a row
I suppose you just need to edge up your stake gradually so the transition is seamless eg 2-3-5-10-15-20 etc.
If I upped my stake from £2 to £50 it would change my attuiude towards risk, meaning Im not trading in the same manner as I am now. Meaning it might not be profitably.
Have you managed to make regular profit albeit minimal?
If I upped my stake from £2 to £50 it would change my attuiude towards risk, meaning Im not trading in the same manner as I am now. Meaning it might not be profitably.
Have you managed to make regular profit albeit minimal?
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lilgreenback
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am
Hi Ben9090,
Save yourself some grief and money and start very slowly. Stay with small stakes and watch how the markets move. (I have mentioned this before. get a cheep laser printer two cartridges/paper and print out a number of the threads from the helpful people on the site that you think are relevent; it's also a handy reference).
I have made and continue to make mistakes so it is important to try to stick with a strategy that is clear. What is that you will ask; again this is hard to quantify from what other people have said everyone trades differently doing slightly different things.
Pick your races so that you have time to watch the market movements. Don't rush in.
Check the Graphs on which way the trends have been, still no guarantee. Try not to Back at the top of the price and don't lay at it's low point.
Check the global settings, check the force open, reverse or none setting. (I've done that before now).
Check you have a low Max liability set to £100 or less, to begin with, check confirm bets on.
If you are on the ladder interface and it is all going pearshaped; from time to time view "one click" screen to check the other prices/runners.
Keep your sound settings on to listen for the time countdown, I don't have the confidence to trade later on towards the off as it will all happen to fast. Try to close out your trades by 5 mins or less and then watch the last mins. (having said that you can get some big moves it's up to you)
Cut out a loss and accept it (there is always another race). If the race turns against you; you may have missed the entry and it's trading up or down. If that is the case you can always cut out and trade or lessen that loss. Remember profit is profit.
Don't go in play, get out and green the loss or profit up across the board. You may get away with it once or twice but it will get you in the end.
There are people who will say that's a load of carp and I don't know what I'm talking about. And you know they may be right. But until I can get on the BF Course or get a bit of hands on traning help you are on your own and you will slowly find what sort of things work and what doesn't.
Just take it easy and don't think that it is easy. As when you do that you'll end up herding cats; thinking how the hell did that happen.
Stay Lucky.
LilGB
Save yourself some grief and money and start very slowly. Stay with small stakes and watch how the markets move. (I have mentioned this before. get a cheep laser printer two cartridges/paper and print out a number of the threads from the helpful people on the site that you think are relevent; it's also a handy reference).
I have made and continue to make mistakes so it is important to try to stick with a strategy that is clear. What is that you will ask; again this is hard to quantify from what other people have said everyone trades differently doing slightly different things.
Pick your races so that you have time to watch the market movements. Don't rush in.
Check the Graphs on which way the trends have been, still no guarantee. Try not to Back at the top of the price and don't lay at it's low point.
Check the global settings, check the force open, reverse or none setting. (I've done that before now).
Check you have a low Max liability set to £100 or less, to begin with, check confirm bets on.
If you are on the ladder interface and it is all going pearshaped; from time to time view "one click" screen to check the other prices/runners.
Keep your sound settings on to listen for the time countdown, I don't have the confidence to trade later on towards the off as it will all happen to fast. Try to close out your trades by 5 mins or less and then watch the last mins. (having said that you can get some big moves it's up to you)
Cut out a loss and accept it (there is always another race). If the race turns against you; you may have missed the entry and it's trading up or down. If that is the case you can always cut out and trade or lessen that loss. Remember profit is profit.
Don't go in play, get out and green the loss or profit up across the board. You may get away with it once or twice but it will get you in the end.
There are people who will say that's a load of carp and I don't know what I'm talking about. And you know they may be right. But until I can get on the BF Course or get a bit of hands on traning help you are on your own and you will slowly find what sort of things work and what doesn't.
Just take it easy and don't think that it is easy. As when you do that you'll end up herding cats; thinking how the hell did that happen.
Stay Lucky.
LilGB
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
That might be where you are going wrong matelilgreenback wrote:Try not to Back at the top of the price and don't lay at it's low point.
You want to be backing at the top and laying at the low!
Good luck with the trading
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lilgreenback
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am
Hi Ya,
EEoor what a dumb ass that was what I meant, Ben ignor that bit I put in and add the bit that Andy has corrected.
It does help when one pays attention, could be somewhere else one goes wrong
Cheers
LilGB
EEoor what a dumb ass that was what I meant, Ben ignor that bit I put in and add the bit that Andy has corrected.
It does help when one pays attention, could be somewhere else one goes wrong
Cheers
LilGB
Hi Ben/Other newbies
My tips for success:
1. Continually read and study - Betangel TV, Betangel forum, other trading blogs and sites such as Jimmakos.
2. Spend a couple of weeks printing off the betfair charts at different time intervals. I picked a horse to trade and printed-off betfair chart 10, 8, 5 minutes prior to the off and also at the off. Review these and you will start to see patterns, support and resistance levels. You will also see the effect of the volume.
3. Go on the Betangel course and get a mentor
4. Only trade with amounts that 1. you can afford to lose but also 2. an amount that is going to hurt when you lose it. The second point may go against the grain for most people but if you earn 30k a year mucking about for 10p greened up will not learn you much.
5. Look at liquidity of market to adjust your stakes, this is especially so when you improve and your bank gets bigger. Pumping a large back bet in a low liquidity race could see you in a world of trouble if the market goes against you.
6. Have low expectations to start - when you can break even/small profit slowly increase you tick size (in-line with point 5).
7. Most importantly - look at the way the money is being matched (the magically market feel). The more you watch and study it the easy it becomes. For all you film buffs I call this the 'Martrix' affect!
8. When you feel something is going to happen go with your gut instincts. This may seem a bit wooly and it may not work initially but try and go with it.
9. When things are going bad - take a break then do some more studying!
These are things I have learnt over the past 5 months and you will continue to learn lots of new things. I am now a league 3 trader (making a small 3 figure daily income) but it is a great challenge. All the best Stewart
My tips for success:
1. Continually read and study - Betangel TV, Betangel forum, other trading blogs and sites such as Jimmakos.
2. Spend a couple of weeks printing off the betfair charts at different time intervals. I picked a horse to trade and printed-off betfair chart 10, 8, 5 minutes prior to the off and also at the off. Review these and you will start to see patterns, support and resistance levels. You will also see the effect of the volume.
3. Go on the Betangel course and get a mentor
4. Only trade with amounts that 1. you can afford to lose but also 2. an amount that is going to hurt when you lose it. The second point may go against the grain for most people but if you earn 30k a year mucking about for 10p greened up will not learn you much.
5. Look at liquidity of market to adjust your stakes, this is especially so when you improve and your bank gets bigger. Pumping a large back bet in a low liquidity race could see you in a world of trouble if the market goes against you.
6. Have low expectations to start - when you can break even/small profit slowly increase you tick size (in-line with point 5).
7. Most importantly - look at the way the money is being matched (the magically market feel). The more you watch and study it the easy it becomes. For all you film buffs I call this the 'Martrix' affect!
8. When you feel something is going to happen go with your gut instincts. This may seem a bit wooly and it may not work initially but try and go with it.
9. When things are going bad - take a break then do some more studying!
These are things I have learnt over the past 5 months and you will continue to learn lots of new things. I am now a league 3 trader (making a small 3 figure daily income) but it is a great challenge. All the best Stewart
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chrishorne
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:29 pm
stewart
that post of yours was one of if not the most informative yet simply put scripts I have ever read
chris
that post of yours was one of if not the most informative yet simply put scripts I have ever read
chris
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lilgreenback
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am
Hi, Stewart, Ben,
Many thanks for the informative post Stew just one thing; You say
The other really good idea which has been posted is one or videoing the trades that you are doing or just record some races to play back at leisure. Combining the two may help.
The thread started by "redbrix" "Disciplined but no Consistency mentions this; again helpful.
Well done on the trading guys,
Stay Lucky,
LilGB
Many thanks for the informative post Stew just one thing; You say
How does one go about printing off the Betfair Charts, I tried it a while back but nothing printed out. It's certainly a good idea.2. Spend a couple of weeks printing off the betfair charts at different time intervals. I picked a horse to trade and printed-off betfair chart 10, 8, 5 minutes prior to the off and also at the off. Review these and you will start to see patterns, support and resistance levels. You will also see the effect of the volume.
The other really good idea which has been posted is one or videoing the trades that you are doing or just record some races to play back at leisure. Combining the two may help.
The thread started by "redbrix" "Disciplined but no Consistency mentions this; again helpful.
Well done on the trading guys,
Stay Lucky,
LilGB
Thanks for all the advice. Ive read the betangel user guide cover to cover a few times and read this forum and various blogs when I get chance but can anyone reccomend any of the trading books that are on the market? Im being dragged to my wifes dancing schools competition all weekend so could do with some reading material!
I made another a 3rd loss in about the 20 races Ive traded in last night but again I learnt my mistake. I got in from work with about 10-15 mins before the next race so fired up the pc, got changed etc sat down entered the market on 2 horses then the 60 second warning sounded. I still presumed I had 5+mins to trade so thats another lesson leanet to check the clock. I lost out on both trades as I scrapped them before the off which was fustrating but still a cheap lesson to learn on £2 stakes.
Thanks for eveyones advice.
Ben
I made another a 3rd loss in about the 20 races Ive traded in last night but again I learnt my mistake. I got in from work with about 10-15 mins before the next race so fired up the pc, got changed etc sat down entered the market on 2 horses then the 60 second warning sounded. I still presumed I had 5+mins to trade so thats another lesson leanet to check the clock. I lost out on both trades as I scrapped them before the off which was fustrating but still a cheap lesson to learn on £2 stakes.
Thanks for eveyones advice.
Ben
Hi lilgreenback
You need to have Betfair open to do this. Open up the chart you would like to print off. Then ensure your cursor is over the matched and unmatched bet quantities and not the chart.
Right click and you should get the option to print.
Hope that helps.
As you mentioned video recording is also good. Just focus on your best/worst trades as it will take you a long time to review all of your trades. You can download Camtasia for one month FOC from this link.
http://www.techsmith.com/camtasia.asp?g ... 4wodxn6YqQ
You need to have Betfair open to do this. Open up the chart you would like to print off. Then ensure your cursor is over the matched and unmatched bet quantities and not the chart.
Right click and you should get the option to print.
Hope that helps.
As you mentioned video recording is also good. Just focus on your best/worst trades as it will take you a long time to review all of your trades. You can download Camtasia for one month FOC from this link.
http://www.techsmith.com/camtasia.asp?g ... 4wodxn6YqQ
Hi Stewart, great post. In (3) you mentioned the Betangel course, I checked out the website and they offer 4 (Peter's class, 1-on-1, Group & Workshop), which one were you referring to?Stewart wrote: 3. Go on the Betangel course and get a mentor
Thanks.