Does anyone in this community provide coaching, mentoring or staking services for new traders who are keen to learn?
I've been part of other communities where staking is commonplace. ie. You provide a bankroll, take financial risk, and help coach in return for a percentage of profit. Does that happen in the sports trading world?
If so, perhaps someone could post some details?
I understand that people like to keep their "systems" to themselves, but if every industry did that, none of us would learn.
coaching/mentoring/staking
If you trade succesfully then there is no need to have access to others funds. The RoI on succesful trading is very high compared to stake so the only reason you would trade with others money is if you think you stand a fair chance of losing. So I would be very wary of anybody offering to use your money.Rex wrote:You provide a bankroll, take financial risk, and help coach in return for a percentage of profit. Does that happen in the sports trading world?
That sounds investment bankers to me where they get bonus on profits they make and if they screw then get you (the public) to bailout.ie. You provide a bankroll, take financial risk, and help coach in return for a percentage of profit.
So they will have the upside and no downside; and you will risk loosing your bankroll. As Euler said be very wary of these type of arrangement.
Better to attend Bet Angel course, if that's still running, and start learning/experimenting yourself with your own capital and get to keep the risk & reward.
Nah I think you guys have misunderstood what I'm trying to say.
If I'm a winning trader, and I know my system works, then what's better than one person using a winning system? How about ten people? Or fifty people?
If I know my system works, I could recruit a team of guys and provide the funds for them to implement my system for me. I know my system works if done correctly, so if I educate my team and ensure they are trusted and disciplined, then they could all be out there making money for me while I sleep. We split the profits they make - I'm risking the capital, and they're putting in the time. It's a win win.
It seems that winning sports traders are reluctant to share their secrets. But it seems that many miss out on opportunities to make even more money by investing in others.
I'm writing this not as a winning trader. I write this as someone who wants to learn and doesn't necessarily have a large bankroll to learn from mistakes (which seems to be the common advice in here). If I had a mentor who was willing to invest time into me, to show me the ropes, the tricks of the trade, the winning systems, then I can be an asset for someone.
As I said, I've been involved other gambling industries where this setup is commonplace, but it seems coaching is hard to come by in here?
If I'm a winning trader, and I know my system works, then what's better than one person using a winning system? How about ten people? Or fifty people?
If I know my system works, I could recruit a team of guys and provide the funds for them to implement my system for me. I know my system works if done correctly, so if I educate my team and ensure they are trusted and disciplined, then they could all be out there making money for me while I sleep. We split the profits they make - I'm risking the capital, and they're putting in the time. It's a win win.
It seems that winning sports traders are reluctant to share their secrets. But it seems that many miss out on opportunities to make even more money by investing in others.
I'm writing this not as a winning trader. I write this as someone who wants to learn and doesn't necessarily have a large bankroll to learn from mistakes (which seems to be the common advice in here). If I had a mentor who was willing to invest time into me, to show me the ropes, the tricks of the trade, the winning systems, then I can be an asset for someone.
As I said, I've been involved other gambling industries where this setup is commonplace, but it seems coaching is hard to come by in here?
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runningman
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:18 am
I've seen stuff like this in the past with online poker (I was a mentor with a staking company)
In my opinion it wouldn't work as at least with online poker you can avoid other players that are staked. Ten people in the same types of market at the same time would probably turn a winning system into a losing one imo.
Also deals like this mostly end badly as the people receiving funds are mostly losing players. Best to stay solo, learn, practice, get screen time, ask questions and gradually increase stakes if you are +ev.
John
John
In my opinion it wouldn't work as at least with online poker you can avoid other players that are staked. Ten people in the same types of market at the same time would probably turn a winning system into a losing one imo.
Also deals like this mostly end badly as the people receiving funds are mostly losing players. Best to stay solo, learn, practice, get screen time, ask questions and gradually increase stakes if you are +ev.
John
John
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OnGoldWires
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:07 pm
I thought it was only bankers that play with other people's money 
You can't scale on sports markets. I have plenty of winning strategies and because of my track record access to pretty much unlimited funding. But I won't take a penny of it as I can't scale a lot of the strategies. So when I see people trying to raise funds to use in the market I know they can't actually be doing it or else they would know the same facts.Rex wrote:If I'm a winning trader, and I know my system works, then what's better than one person using a winning system? How about ten people? Or fifty people?
For example, the average Uk race turnovers over £500k, so if you had a bank of that size you would be the entire market. What you notice as you get larger is your strike rate falls away faster as faster as your stake rises.
Last edited by Euler on Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anyone who has a winning system will not need to borrow other people's money, even starting from 100-00 you will quickly hit the ceiling of what is possible.Rex wrote:
If I'm a winning trader, and I know my system works, then what's better than one person using a winning system? How about ten people? Or fifty people?
Be very careful of anyone offering this proposition, in the betting exchange world it really makes no sense whatsoever.
If you find your own winning system then keep it to yourself or it will soon be gone, it make a huge difference if 10 or fifty people are doing the same things.
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Mr Undercover
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:22 pm
Euler can you explain that bit again ?
"What you notice as you get larger is your strike rate falls away faster as faster as your stake rises."
I'm a bit confused?
"What you notice as you get larger is your strike rate falls away faster as faster as your stake rises."
I'm a bit confused?
I still don't think some of you guys are understanding what I'm trying to say.
If (hypothetically) I have a winning system, I don't need to borrow money. I'm looking to invest my money into training up others. Teach them my system, in exchange for say 50% of their profits. So if I have 10 guys out there trading successfully using my money, and I'm getting 50% of their profits, it's a good situation.
It's a similar proposition to online poker yes. However I can't see how ten others trading with a similar strategy can affect the overall market unless you are betting thousands or more because its so huge. Obviously a lot of trading involves making a choice, so exit/entry points could vary and even the events themselves might be different so you're not "competing" with your team.
If (hypothetically) I have a winning system, I don't need to borrow money. I'm looking to invest my money into training up others. Teach them my system, in exchange for say 50% of their profits. So if I have 10 guys out there trading successfully using my money, and I'm getting 50% of their profits, it's a good situation.
It's a similar proposition to online poker yes. However I can't see how ten others trading with a similar strategy can affect the overall market unless you are betting thousands or more because its so huge. Obviously a lot of trading involves making a choice, so exit/entry points could vary and even the events themselves might be different so you're not "competing" with your team.
Say you are in the market with £10, nobody will see you and you don't really influence price. If you raise your stake to £100 its more likely you will start to influence price activity when liquidity is lower, use £1000 and you will influence price across a range of markets and strategies. It doesn't matter whether it's just you or a team, more money will equal a lower strike rate. Or else you could just use larger and larger stakes to earn an infinite amount of money. It's the law of diminishing returns and it kicks in very quickly on sports markets.
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
I can understand what you are saying but as Euler says it simply won't work.
If you have a system that works then a certain amount of money is available to you. Basically your method is taking advantage of an error in the market but if you involve other traders using the same method you will find yourself fighting one another for the same piece of the pie.
If you have a system that works then a certain amount of money is available to you. Basically your method is taking advantage of an error in the market but if you involve other traders using the same method you will find yourself fighting one another for the same piece of the pie.
Rex
I would agree with Euler and Jolly.
My advice would be to invest some of your time/money in your own development.
I would recommend at least a year under your belt and be very proficient in using bet angel, then doing one of the courses (Dont do the training before this)
If someone offered to bankroll me 1 million, I would decline as I wouldn't be able to increase my monthly P&L over and above what it is now.
Regards
Peter
I would agree with Euler and Jolly.
My advice would be to invest some of your time/money in your own development.
I would recommend at least a year under your belt and be very proficient in using bet angel, then doing one of the courses (Dont do the training before this)
If someone offered to bankroll me 1 million, I would decline as I wouldn't be able to increase my monthly P&L over and above what it is now.
Regards
Peter
Rex,
Let's say I'm less than 100% loyal.
I start off by using your system, using your money, and make good profits. But I soon start to think 'Wouldn't it make sense for me to keep 100% of my own profits, rather than 50%?'.
So I give you your money back and start trading with my own money. Being ambitious, I keep upping my stakes as my bank size increases, and in the end the system becomes useless to both your guys and I, as the stake sizes spook the market.
Jeff
Let's say I'm less than 100% loyal.
I start off by using your system, using your money, and make good profits. But I soon start to think 'Wouldn't it make sense for me to keep 100% of my own profits, rather than 50%?'.
So I give you your money back and start trading with my own money. Being ambitious, I keep upping my stakes as my bank size increases, and in the end the system becomes useless to both your guys and I, as the stake sizes spook the market.
Jeff
Rex wrote: If (hypothetically) I have a winning system, I don't need to borrow money. I'm looking to invest my money into training up others. Teach them my system, in exchange for say 50% of their profits. So if I have 10 guys out there trading successfully using my money, and I'm getting 50% of their profits, it's a good situation.
It would be interesting to know how many systems that worked five years ago still work today.
Any conceivable edge is likely to be discovered by a number of people, given the huge number of traders there are out there who study the markets. And, as you say, the effect of lots of people doing the same thing can be considerable.
Jeff
Any conceivable edge is likely to be discovered by a number of people, given the huge number of traders there are out there who study the markets. And, as you say, the effect of lots of people doing the same thing can be considerable.
Jeff
freddy wrote: If you find your own winning system then keep it to yourself or it will soon be gone, it make a huge difference if 10 or fifty people are doing the same things.