I stopped playing online poker!
I have been struggling with my health again so I decided to play some poker. I have played for years and used to enjoy live games. I just use small stakes in tournaments more as a stress buster rather than trying to make money. Anyway I have just experienced the worst run of bad luck in my life. I think I must have upset someone because this is unreal. I have listed the hands, with mine first, the pre-flop probability of winning and then the result.
AA v J2 ~93% lost
AK v A6 ~69% lost
QQ v Q7 ~93% lost
A7 v 73 ~75% lost
AA v QQ ~82% lost
99 v 33 ~ 82% lost
I really had seen enough after that run and will not be bothering any more. Also, that was just the hands where we'd been all in. I lost one hand with AK hearts on a Q T 4 all heart flop, the opponent moved in with 77 making me 97% only for him to see a T on the turn and a 7 on the river!!
If I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all!
Now I know why......
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giulio2010
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:11 am
Online poker is rigged.......My mentor have done a research long ago for an institute in Italy and found out something rather bizarre about the frequencys of hands like four of kind, straight flush and royal flush.
I remember also been told that poker companys had players playing for the site called poker-props or something like that.
So when you play poker you are more likely to play against 3-4 poker-props playing togheter at the same table..They look like idiots sometimes, they chat with you sometimes but in reality they are so efficient...
If you played Betfair table of 6, you are more likely to play against 3-4 poker-props garuanteed...Some betfair poker-props make up to 85% cash back..more they make for the site more they make them self, so be very carefull.
I am not making this up to scare you, it's all true..
I remember also been told that poker companys had players playing for the site called poker-props or something like that.
So when you play poker you are more likely to play against 3-4 poker-props playing togheter at the same table..They look like idiots sometimes, they chat with you sometimes but in reality they are so efficient...
If you played Betfair table of 6, you are more likely to play against 3-4 poker-props garuanteed...Some betfair poker-props make up to 85% cash back..more they make for the site more they make them self, so be very carefull.
I am not making this up to scare you, it's all true..
Even if your opponents aren't colluding against you, my concern would be that I was playing a bot who can calculate the odds far better than me.
BTW, I don't know it's an urban myth, but I've heard that a good time to play online poker is at times when many of your opponents are likely to be drunk, like late Friday night US time.
Jeff
BTW, I don't know it's an urban myth, but I've heard that a good time to play online poker is at times when many of your opponents are likely to be drunk, like late Friday night US time.
Jeff
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giulio2010
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:11 am
Ferru123,
playing against drunk people is not a myth is actually very true. It happens to play against drunk british, germans and russian as much as the americans.
Dutch, danish and all the scandinavian countrys players play very aggressive and pretty much all possible combinations..sometimes they are very hard to beat..The worst players in Europe are from greece and cyprus, they are the sharks favorites in europe.
Pokerprops dont need to collide, they are profs and have certain rules how to play certain hands and positions. It's like playing me, you and jollygreen against Euler1, Euler2 and Euler3 on horse trading. Who do you think is going to make most of the profit overtime? We or the Eulers? With the disadvantage that on trading you pay 60% PC but as pokerprops you get the advantage to ge paid for making the site profits up to 85% rakeback...
playing against drunk people is not a myth is actually very true. It happens to play against drunk british, germans and russian as much as the americans.
Dutch, danish and all the scandinavian countrys players play very aggressive and pretty much all possible combinations..sometimes they are very hard to beat..The worst players in Europe are from greece and cyprus, they are the sharks favorites in europe.
Pokerprops dont need to collide, they are profs and have certain rules how to play certain hands and positions. It's like playing me, you and jollygreen against Euler1, Euler2 and Euler3 on horse trading. Who do you think is going to make most of the profit overtime? We or the Eulers? With the disadvantage that on trading you pay 60% PC but as pokerprops you get the advantage to ge paid for making the site profits up to 85% rakeback...
Some of these issues, playing drunk, fish in the system etc is covered in Nate Silvers book, The Signal and the Noise. See viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7040&hilit=Nate for a book review.
My poker career was even more dire than my BetAngel one 
Lost thousands in a space in a few months, and basically gave it away.
The online poker is riddled with cheating. I once frequented a site I won't name, playing Texas no-hold 'em for a few months. It was clear that not only were poker bots being used, but there was also collusion going-on, and the last-straw was when it became very clear to me that some of the players could some-how see my pocket cards (computer hacking of the software application obviously).
Its even more rigged than the blatant price-manipulation, fraud and trickery going-on day-in and day-out on the horse racing
Lost thousands in a space in a few months, and basically gave it away.The online poker is riddled with cheating. I once frequented a site I won't name, playing Texas no-hold 'em for a few months. It was clear that not only were poker bots being used, but there was also collusion going-on, and the last-straw was when it became very clear to me that some of the players could some-how see my pocket cards (computer hacking of the software application obviously).
Its even more rigged than the blatant price-manipulation, fraud and trickery going-on day-in and day-out on the horse racing
To Jollygreen
I've been a software developer, and I know that they can access every bit of data they want... Imagine for a moment that some of the players are the owners of that software... How on earth could you possibly win?
Control is very slack because punters are mugs nobody cares about and there is no place where they can complain, also, they often want to hide their being punters so...
with Betfair it should be different because they couldn't possibly control all football games, tennis games, horse races etc. going on in the world, so in that sense I'd trust Betfair, but playing against any software I think is too silly a thing for anybody to do.
cheers
I've been a software developer, and I know that they can access every bit of data they want... Imagine for a moment that some of the players are the owners of that software... How on earth could you possibly win?
Control is very slack because punters are mugs nobody cares about and there is no place where they can complain, also, they often want to hide their being punters so...
with Betfair it should be different because they couldn't possibly control all football games, tennis games, horse races etc. going on in the world, so in that sense I'd trust Betfair, but playing against any software I think is too silly a thing for anybody to do.
cheers
Hi Corbus,
Betfair trade in their own markets and run a sportsbook, meaning that there is a clear conflict of interest.
Jeff
Betfair trade in their own markets and run a sportsbook, meaning that there is a clear conflict of interest.
Jeff
corbus wrote: with Betfair it should be different because they couldn't possibly control all football games, tennis games, horse races etc. going on in the world, so in that sense I'd trust Betfair, but playing against any software I think is too silly a thing for anybody to do.
Hi Jeff,
I can understand that, but surely Betfair cannot "decide" which horse is going to win a race or which team a game? And neither they could know that in advance... all they can do is to give all date with some delay perhaps, but surely they cannot manipulate
the end results?
Can we say then that trading with Betfair is somewhat fairer than if playing against a pure software which also creates data and results?
Ennio
I can understand that, but surely Betfair cannot "decide" which horse is going to win a race or which team a game? And neither they could know that in advance... all they can do is to give all date with some delay perhaps, but surely they cannot manipulate
the end results?
Can we say then that trading with Betfair is somewhat fairer than if playing against a pure software which also creates data and results?
Ennio
Yes. 
All I'm saying is that Betfair's ability to make decisions regarding how the market is operated (eg with cross matching) and their ability to see orders a split second before they hit the market creates a conflict of interest. I'm not saying that they necessarily abuse their power, however.
Jeff
All I'm saying is that Betfair's ability to make decisions regarding how the market is operated (eg with cross matching) and their ability to see orders a split second before they hit the market creates a conflict of interest. I'm not saying that they necessarily abuse their power, however.
Jeff
corbus wrote: Can we say then that trading with Betfair is somewhat fairer than if playing against a pure software which also creates data and results?
Ennio
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Well I am still unwell with double vision and vertigo. The doctor told me to use something to help get my brain focussing again so I foolishly decided to play poker.
I have never seen such bad play rewarded.
I had AK hearts and there was a raise from the big blind. I held position over him so I raised him enough to put him all in; naturally he insta called. There was not a hesitation so I assumed the same hand or perhaps I was in trouble and he had a large pair JJ QQ KK AA.
He showed 6 3 hearts
Now come on, why is this guy raising and calling a re-raise with dross like that? 
The flop came J 8 2 all hearts! Now I know from playing many years of poker I am 99.9% favourite. Wait for it though....
Turn 5 hearts which means I am now 97.7% (had to check that!)
River 4 hearts!! OMFG!!! He hits the one outer to win!
I could not believe it but thankfully this guy was a calling station and he had 25% of my stack
I then wait and about 15 hands later I am dealt AA both black. I raise and the eejit moved in. I naturally called and he showed TT
The flop came A 8 Q so I'm now once again a huge favourite of 97%.
Turn T
River T
He made quads and that knocked me out! I have played a lot of live poker and I've never seen this happen. The hands that hit are just plain crazy and the flop always seems to hit someone hard. I most live games you are happy to get a pair but online it's straights, flushes. full house, trips and quads as regular as clockwork.
I did win some hands but because I rarely play dross or out of position unless I know the table I usually come out evens or ahead. These defeats were the worst but I had multiple losses with pair over pair where I held the high hand!
I really must kick my doctor when I next see him!!!
I have never seen such bad play rewarded.
I had AK hearts and there was a raise from the big blind. I held position over him so I raised him enough to put him all in; naturally he insta called. There was not a hesitation so I assumed the same hand or perhaps I was in trouble and he had a large pair JJ QQ KK AA.
He showed 6 3 hearts
Now come on, why is this guy raising and calling a re-raise with dross like that? The flop came J 8 2 all hearts! Now I know from playing many years of poker I am 99.9% favourite. Wait for it though....
Turn 5 hearts which means I am now 97.7% (had to check that!)
River 4 hearts!! OMFG!!! He hits the one outer to win!
I could not believe it but thankfully this guy was a calling station and he had 25% of my stack
I then wait and about 15 hands later I am dealt AA both black. I raise and the eejit moved in. I naturally called and he showed TT
The flop came A 8 Q so I'm now once again a huge favourite of 97%.
Turn T
River T
He made quads and that knocked me out! I have played a lot of live poker and I've never seen this happen. The hands that hit are just plain crazy and the flop always seems to hit someone hard. I most live games you are happy to get a pair but online it's straights, flushes. full house, trips and quads as regular as clockwork.
I did win some hands but because I rarely play dross or out of position unless I know the table I usually come out evens or ahead. These defeats were the worst but I had multiple losses with pair over pair where I held the high hand!
I really must kick my doctor when I next see him!!!
Sounds too bad to believe Jolly.
They are running an old season of "Poker After Dark" here in NZ, Esfandiari and Hellmuth always seem to get into big hands against each other, Hellmuth ends up losing the lot every time and always erupts into swear-word filled rants about his bad luck It just happened again a few weeks ago when the two of them met at a tournamnet...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyYrwbI_kE
Poker is just too frustrating for me because the luck element is just too great.
They are running an old season of "Poker After Dark" here in NZ, Esfandiari and Hellmuth always seem to get into big hands against each other, Hellmuth ends up losing the lot every time and always erupts into swear-word filled rants about his bad luck
It just happened again a few weeks ago when the two of them met at a tournamnet...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyyYrwbI_kE
Poker is just too frustrating for me because the luck element is just too great.
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Here is an update on my Poker nightmare.
I joined a new site and took the bonus. I played steady and managed to turn $20 into $200 with solid play and just one piece of luck where I had AJ v AK and was given a free flop of JJ8.
However, as soon as I was close to reaching the bonus payout mark it all changed.
I hit trips on a flop having raised pre-flop with JJ. There was a potential flush draw as the danger so I raised the pot. There was no delay and he called. The turn was a blank IMHO and he checked. I bet again, this time the size of the pot and he called again. The river came a 7 which in the context of the hand looked to be a blank. I was wrong and he showed 6 9 for a straight. He had nothing at all but a gutshot draw and he bet his whole bank to win it on the last card out!
So I carried on and everything started to change, the bonus figure was disappearing again. I had QQ and raised preflop from the cut off. I had the same fish call me. The flop came 359 rainbow. He bet double the pot I mean like WTF?? I thought about what he could have in terms of hand and unless he has 33 55 or 99 I was still miles ahead. I decided to put him to the test and bet double again. THere was not a flicker of hesitation he called all in instantly. He showed......wait for it....84 off suit!! The turn was 6 and yes you guessed it the river was the 7!!!
When chat was opened again some other player typed "WTF" in the chat and the fish replied "I had a straight draw"
This kept happening so I decided to sit back and wait for good hands. I won a few but kept losing to crazy draws. Then as I was clawing back my bonus target I started to notice a pattern developing. I was the biggest stack at the table as you can only start with $20 and I was up around $160 now. My big blind came around and I was dealt 2 4 suited spades. I would fold that in normal play but I was given a free flop so I took it. The flop came 2h 4d 9c and I checked. The same player made a pot sized bet??? I could only realistically be losing to 99 as even over pairs were behind. I decided to make a large bet to put this guy all in and he insta called me to show 78 suited in spades. He had no real draw and no hand but I just knew what would happen. I typed in the chat "I will lose this" but as we were all in it was not shown. The turn came 7 and the river was a 9 which counterfeited my hand. So I lost $50 to this guy.
I kept watching him like a hawk and realised that unless I was in a hand he didn't really play. Then my BB (big blind) came around and I had black Aces. The "employee" as we shall call him made a raise. There was a surprising re-raise but it was from a bad player and I don't think he knew what was going on. With AA I simply shoved all in and put them to the test. The usual suspect instacalled me. The other guy folded. The "employee" showed A 5 off-suit!! I mean you do not call an all in with A 5 in a cash game. In fact you never call in with A5 in any game!!
There is no chat when all in as I said before. But I typed in the chat "I'll lose this again!"
The flop came 2 4 3 and he hit the wheel! I mean what can you do? He took about $90 off me that time. The players started the chat in amazement at this guy. The other player said he folded 44 and he was trying to find weakness in our hands. So this guy hit one of only two fours in the deck or so I thought. Another player said he folded 45 hearts so he actually hit the case 4!! So this "person" was around 49/1 to win and hit it on the flop straight off!
Now I am not a believer that Poker is rigged so I carried on. I picked up a few small pots and then blow me I was dealt AA. The "usual suspect" was already in the pot, after all it was my BB! I raised and this guy re-raised me. I shoved and he called instantly. He showed 44....you can guess the rest he hit a 4 on the flop and I whiffed!!
I then decided something was wrong here. You don't call a large raise with just 44. It really was as if this guy could see the cards. I still don't believe that can happen but I must admit I am close to being a convert! The luck this guy showed was unreal.
I was suspicious because this guy came to the table after I had run over it. Many others had come and gone because with my large stack I could bully them.
I won't mention the site but I have written to them asking for an investigation into possible collusion or cheating. I doubt they will say anything but I have to put it to them.
I moved to another table and started to win again. In fact I opened 4 other tables and started to win. It was nothing huge but I was clawing it back. Then my "usual suspect" sat in on the table. I was suspicious now because he either waited to be sat to my right or could choose his seat to ensure he was to my right.
I have now gone through the hands and I never won a single pot against this guy (assuming it is a guy) and he was the only player at the table who I watched win almost every hand he entered.
I know RunningMan was a Poker Pro for a while so if he reads this I would appreciate his thoughts. I won't be holding my breath waiting for a reply from the poker site!
I joined a new site and took the bonus. I played steady and managed to turn $20 into $200 with solid play and just one piece of luck where I had AJ v AK and was given a free flop of JJ8.
However, as soon as I was close to reaching the bonus payout mark it all changed.
I hit trips on a flop having raised pre-flop with JJ. There was a potential flush draw as the danger so I raised the pot. There was no delay and he called. The turn was a blank IMHO and he checked. I bet again, this time the size of the pot and he called again. The river came a 7 which in the context of the hand looked to be a blank. I was wrong and he showed 6 9 for a straight. He had nothing at all but a gutshot draw and he bet his whole bank to win it on the last card out!
So I carried on and everything started to change, the bonus figure was disappearing again. I had QQ and raised preflop from the cut off. I had the same fish call me. The flop came 359 rainbow. He bet double the pot I mean like WTF??
I thought about what he could have in terms of hand and unless he has 33 55 or 99 I was still miles ahead. I decided to put him to the test and bet double again. THere was not a flicker of hesitation he called all in instantly. He showed......wait for it....84 off suit!! The turn was 6 and yes you guessed it the river was the 7!!!When chat was opened again some other player typed "WTF" in the chat and the fish replied "I had a straight draw"
This kept happening so I decided to sit back and wait for good hands. I won a few but kept losing to crazy draws. Then as I was clawing back my bonus target I started to notice a pattern developing. I was the biggest stack at the table as you can only start with $20 and I was up around $160 now. My big blind came around and I was dealt 2 4 suited spades. I would fold that in normal play but I was given a free flop so I took it. The flop came 2h 4d 9c and I checked. The same player made a pot sized bet??? I could only realistically be losing to 99 as even over pairs were behind. I decided to make a large bet to put this guy all in and he insta called me to show 78 suited in spades. He had no real draw and no hand but I just knew what would happen. I typed in the chat "I will lose this" but as we were all in it was not shown. The turn came 7 and the river was a 9 which counterfeited my hand. So I lost $50 to this guy.
I kept watching him like a hawk and realised that unless I was in a hand he didn't really play. Then my BB (big blind) came around and I had black Aces. The "employee" as we shall call him made a raise. There was a surprising re-raise but it was from a bad player and I don't think he knew what was going on. With AA I simply shoved all in and put them to the test. The usual suspect instacalled me. The other guy folded. The "employee" showed A 5 off-suit!! I mean you do not call an all in with A 5 in a cash game. In fact you never call in with A5 in any game!!
There is no chat when all in as I said before. But I typed in the chat "I'll lose this again!"
The flop came 2 4 3 and he hit the wheel! I mean what can you do? He took about $90 off me that time. The players started the chat in amazement at this guy. The other player said he folded 44 and he was trying to find weakness in our hands. So this guy hit one of only two fours in the deck or so I thought. Another player said he folded 45 hearts so he actually hit the case 4!! So this "person" was around 49/1 to win and hit it on the flop straight off!
Now I am not a believer that Poker is rigged so I carried on. I picked up a few small pots and then blow me I was dealt AA. The "usual suspect" was already in the pot, after all it was my BB! I raised and this guy re-raised me. I shoved and he called instantly. He showed 44....you can guess the rest he hit a 4 on the flop and I whiffed!!
I then decided something was wrong here. You don't call a large raise with just 44. It really was as if this guy could see the cards. I still don't believe that can happen but I must admit I am close to being a convert! The luck this guy showed was unreal.
I was suspicious because this guy came to the table after I had run over it. Many others had come and gone because with my large stack I could bully them.
I won't mention the site but I have written to them asking for an investigation into possible collusion or cheating. I doubt they will say anything but I have to put it to them.
I moved to another table and started to win again. In fact I opened 4 other tables and started to win. It was nothing huge but I was clawing it back. Then my "usual suspect" sat in on the table. I was suspicious now because he either waited to be sat to my right or could choose his seat to ensure he was to my right.
I have now gone through the hands and I never won a single pot against this guy (assuming it is a guy) and he was the only player at the table who I watched win almost every hand he entered.
I know RunningMan was a Poker Pro for a while so if he reads this I would appreciate his thoughts. I won't be holding my breath waiting for a reply from the poker site!
Last edited by JollyGreen on Thu May 02, 2013 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2047
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
Well sod it, the site is 888.com and you want to see proof then here you go in Technicolor!!!
I have hidden my username to spare my blushes.
I have two screen shots but the money went in on the flop. I cannot get it to show the bets and the hole cards for some reason. I am using the English flag as my Avatar and I have 33 to his T9
Now this is unreal yet again as I was 98% favourite on the flop and still 91% to win on the turn!! Same player and note his stack!!
I have hidden my username to spare my blushes.
I have two screen shots but the money went in on the flop. I cannot get it to show the bets and the hole cards for some reason. I am using the English flag as my Avatar and I have 33 to his T9
Now this is unreal yet again as I was 98% favourite on the flop and still 91% to win on the turn!! Same player and note his stack!!
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Hi Jolly, I don't want to accuse specific sites by name, but I know for a fact that a poker site I was on, some players could illegally see other players' hole cards. I know this because the guy that was fleecing me slipped up in chat once, he was naming my cards, even though they had never actually been revealed. It's easy for the other guy to beat you when he can see your cards.